Reply to Megan Quinn's observations: I am sure if you were watching me try to clean one of my deaf ferret's teeth at the show you would have accused me of abuse too, and I have twenty years experience. I manage a veterinary hospital. He screamed loud enough to wake the dead and someone commented that they had never heard a ferret scream like that before. Well come to my house anytime. I have 7 deaf ferrets and they scream like that for all occasions, play, fighting, seeing another ferret they don't like....... I have already warned the neighbors not to call the police they are merely loud because they cannot hear. As I write this two are in the playpen squealing like they are being tortured with hot branding irons. Things are not always what they appear to be. I also will give them a smack on the snout if they snap out of anger. Not to discipline would be to teach the ferret that this behavior is ok. It is not. Animals learn by repetition and consistency. It is not OK to nip sometimes but not others. It is never OK to nip and that must be taught from the beginning. It must be done the instant after the undesirable behavior has occurred, you cannot wait until you are home or when no one is looking because it might be perceived as abuse. The ferret will not remember later what it is being disciplined for. Your immediate reaction will dictate how that ferret will handle the same situation in the future and it may even save his life someday. You can be firm without being abusive. What you perceived as abuse, is merely the breeder speaking the ferret's own language. If you have ever raised a litter of kits from birth you would see that is exactly how a Jill disciplines an unruly kit. Or how an older ferret will put a younger one in it's place. If you could see some of my tiny jills trashing a teenage hob with too much testosterone, you would surely call the humane society. Scruffing does not hurt,the nape of a ferret is the toughest part of it's body, and the consequent screaming is usually out of anger because they are not getting their own way. Kits especially can be like two year olds taking a temper tantrum. As for the breeder biting, the ferret back , that is also a ferret's own language. Some ferrets are more headstrong than others. Sometimes the only way littermates have of letting a bully know they have had enough is to bite him and mean it. The bite is not hard enough to injure, just to let them know they mean business. I do not, however, recommend this particular method unless you are very experienced with ferrets. You may wind up the one being disciplined. Not all disciplines work for all ferrets. You have to use what works for that particular animal. There is a difference between abuse and discipline. If more people accepted this and parents were allowed to use discipline without having every little thing called abuse America's children might not find themselves in the trouble they are in today. This is not to say that abuse never happens, it unfortunately does, but you will find in most cases that abusers are cowards and mainly do it behind closed doors, not in public. I can tell you that most of the breeders that have been found out to be abusive or undesirable were the models of kindness and caring in public. Never judge a book by it's cover. Although I did not see what you are describing first hand, I would say it is not abuse. I know most of the breeders that were there and they would have been up in arms if they saw someone abusing a ferret and that includes another breeder. If you see something you don't understand, just ask, all of the show going breeders myself included, will be happy to answer any questions you might have. Pat Stauffer Weasels http://pages.prodigy.net/staufferp/ [Posted in FML issue 2755]