Zack and fellow ferret lovers! After finding myself writing the third letter today about bitter apple, I decided, why not post it to the list, as well. Most of these kids people wrote about are young, which is in itself a very challenging time for ferret parents. Kits have a natural urge to nip, due to teething and their misunderstanding that humans can't be played with like other ferrets. Take hope in the fact that a well cared for, well socialized ferret usually outgrows this with time. And I agree with you Zack, I wouldn't thump/flick/hit my ferrets, either. What I have found to be pretty effective is a product called 'Bitter Apple'. It is available in pet stores, usually in the dog section. It is a spray that contains some unpleasant tasting things in it, the largest amount being isopropyl alcohol. If you spray this stuff on the parts they want to bite, then let them get a taste (it's hard to hold still and let them bite you, but it works) they tend to learn very quickly that you don't taste good. It's not harmful to them, and the only the I'd note for humans is that it is very drying to your skin, if you have to use alot of it, so some lotion before or after might be necessary. I've found that after about a week of use, they don't have such a need to taste you. ;) We've used it on hands, feet, other ferrets' necks, and even a cable that we wanted them to leave alone. ONe thing that I've found works with my Dessie, because he's 6 months now, and will still bite hard occasionally when very excited, is to say 'OW' in a loud expressive way. He seems to realize he's hurt us, which I don't believe is ever his intention, and releases immediately. The times that we need to do this are getting farther and farther apart as well. One thing I'd like to point out, not just to you, Zack, but also to everyone new to ferrets on the list is that there are several things to remember about ferrets and nipping. Most ferrets, during play, will put their teeth on you, but not bite down. We allow this, because it seems to be a natural part of their play, and we like them to play with us. But the second any of them bite hard enough to hurt, we do the loud 'OW' and they always back off. We don't have to do it at all with our 6 year old girl (who never uses her teeth on us), sometimes with our 2 and 3 year old girls, when they get really excited, and more often with Dessie, as I said before. With patience and understanding, a nippy kit will grow to a gentle adult, who only nips when really excited, scared or in pain. A dook is the sound that some ferrets make when they play or get excited. A great place to hear what one sounds like is Sam's site, where he has his kit pictures (real cuties, too). On that page he has a link that will play a recorded dooking sound. http://users.1st.net/hammock/ferrets/kits/ Hope you don't mind, Sam! Not all fuzzies seem to make this sound, but most of us who do have one that makes it consider ourselves lucky, because it's like music to our ears! And, I've heard that they do have an incrediably high tolerance for pain, and yes, they are all completely insane, ain't it great?? Hugs and dooks Sherry -- http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/pier/8102/ Meet my fuzzy family! [Posted in FML issue 2580]