Peter wrote about ferrets being used to train nurses intubation techniques... I know this is not be a short post (I don't believe I'm known for brevity <g>) Although I'm the first to comment that I've never been a nurse, trained as one, or seen a ferret used in this training, I must also say that I've spoken to people who have taken in ferrets who have been used in this manner prior to their receiving them. All of the ones I've heard of have been retired jills from large breeders, such as Marshall Farms. They were invariably donated by the breeders to schools in order to teach this - since ferrets seem to have a nearly identical system for this process as a baby does. Those I have heard of have been well cared for (even spoiled in some cases!!) by the schools, the intubation is done under anasthaesia so the ferret doesn't feel anything during it, and from my understanding, the maximum amount of times they were used for this training is twice. They were then adopted out to new families to live as pets. Often, the nurses who were in the classes fell in love with the little guys (as I'm sure you can all sympathise with!) and they ended up keeping them as their own. Now, as with any system, especially those involving humans, things very rarely end up being perfect. It sounds like, in this case that the ferrets are not being cared for as they should! Intubation should not be a process which maims the ferret or baby (which the ferret is 'mimicking') If this maiming is occuring, especially if it's on a regular basis, I'd personally rather not have that anyone that the tutor had trained near any baby requiring such a procedure! One case is bad enough, and can be the result of inattention, or ignorance. More than one case points to, IMO, a lack on the tutors part to prepare the students before the procedure. I'm well aware that I may be wrong, and quite possibly I am, however, this is the first thought that occurs to me in this instance. If something that results in injured, hurt, or killed ferrets is happening on a regular basis at this place, then this place should not be allowed to use animals in their schooling system. As a matter of interest, pardon my ignorance in this area, but how would a nurse learn intubation of a baby (which is what ferrets are used for) in the emergency room? Now, maybe not all people are like this, but if I had a baby that required intubating, *I* wouldn't let a student who'd never even attempted it before near my child! Hospitals, particularly in the US, are well aware of the fact that they can (and often will) be sued if something goes wrong with any procedure, so I doubt they would take that risk. I don't know how much simulators sell for over there, but it must be darned cheap if the ferrets used for this training are more expensive. A majority (all that I've heard of) of the ferrets used for this purpose are donated to the schools for this reason. Costs involved... feeding, watering and cleaning them. Well, okay, water and cleaning are negligable costs, and so is food unless they're eating solid gold... They tend not to be there long enough to require veterinary treatment such as vaccinations etc... and they're adopted out once their time at the school is over. I believe they're normally given away, although there may be a nominal fee involved in adopting one. As a matter of interest, simulators are wonderful machines... but no simulator is so good as to mimic reality. At least, not yet! They're getting closer all the time, but not quite there... After having said all this, and probably raised the ire of a majority of FMLers, I do have to say that although it sounds contrary to what I've stated here, I do not agree with using animals in testing. Although I *do* agree with using animals for testing products made for those animals, such as the distemper vaccinations - Fervac-D would never have been approved if it hadn't been tested - and rabies vaccinations... If it weren't the the extensive testing on ferrets in regards to rabies, ferrets across the continental US would still be ROUTINELY KILLED for nips, bites, scratches (and *accused* nips bites or scratches) I'll leave on this final word, if your do decide to write in to the people listed in yesterdays FML then please, be reasonable. Offer suggestions as to what can be used instead of ferrets - such as Peters' suggestion of simulators. Tell them why it would be better for them to change, they won't do it otherwise. Explain to them why they should change, and how they should change, and why it would be better. Don't get overly angry, or they will discard your letter to them without considering all the good points. Above all, be polite. Politeness will get your letter read, and politeness will get things past the first, major hurdle. If you feel strongly about this, of *course* you must write, but remember that the more polite you are, the more reasonable you act and sound, the more respected your opinions and suggestions will be. Sam [Posted in FML issue 2579]