Maybe no one but me does this (?) but instead of hitting your fert why don't you just give a good blow in the face? Not a punch! Actually blow in their face real quick-like along with a good NO! That's what I was told to do, way back when I got my first fert. I have never hit them because when they do somthing bad, I just scruff them, blow in their face, and say NO! Now I know there are people out there who will say "Oh no! Don't blow in their face! It's bad for them!" But isn't that a heck of a lot better than hitting them? And you certainly shouldn't blow into their nose, just into their face. It's worked for all of my boys, and they learn quickly since they don't like it. But hey, I figured with all of the discussion about discipline I would throw in my method. I'm suprised no one else has mentioned this....or have they and I just missed it....? Lia and the ever expanding team of snowballs [Posted in FML issue 2466]