Some people know how difficult it has been for me to read the FML lately....five different people emailed this to me. Troublemakers, each one. Have Alphachi and Bill K napped off or something? FML too quiet? >"After reading Bob Church's discourse on the improbability of the >"domesticated" ferret to feralize (become feral) in Californica (or any >other place where ENVIRONMENT is ferret friendly) I can say I'm convinced >that Church's theory is just that: ... a theory of the erudite. It's not >factual discourse of the known. Could it be wishful thinking and hoping? >Yes." First about closed doors and smell. Your idea that a closed door will stop a ferret from smelling a baby? Missed a fast ball on that one. Research has shown the ferret to equal or exceed the dog's sense of smell, and a dog CAN do it, otherwise why use them to *find* lost children or people in crunched buildings? Ferrets are essentially the same as polecats in the sense of smell department, which means they can sniff out toads under nearly half a meter of dirt, topped by snow. A door stopping the scent? Heck, my nose isn't a hundredth as sensitive as a ferret's and I could smell dear old dad behind the door when he was..."reading." Ever smell a diaper pail? That's not saying sound may not be a factor here, but discounting a ferret's sense of smell is rather..... well, you don't have to erudite to know its wrong. Step up for the next pitch. What I presented was a hypothesis to explain the facts. The "factual discourse of the known" is there simply are no feral ferrets in the USA. I said, since that is true, then various other factors must be the reason. If I tested that hypothesis and could not make it fail, then it might become a theory. In contrast, what you presented was an opinion; that is, an idea NOT based on facts, but conjecture. But let me restate your words as a hypothesis, "If ferrets react to baby cries excitedly, then they are not domesticated and can form feral colonies." I'll allow my hypothesis to become the alterative, "Because of various factors, including olfactory imprinting, lack of predator advoidance behaviors, and competetion, ferrets cannot form feral colonies in the USA regardless of their reactions to sounds." Being erudite, I know you cannot actually test hypotheses; only their implications. The implication of your statements (the 1st hypothesis) is that those ferrets that react to sound will form feral colonies. The implications of my hypothesis is that ferrets will not form feral colonies because of the stated factors. So what is the next step? You test the implications. Now, the thing is, you are required to discard those hypotheses that fail the tests. Since ferrets have been in the USA in large numbers for at least a century, and sexually complete adults have been released or discarded numerous times in that time period, you don't really have to toss new ones out to test the implications. It has already been done time and time again. So, since my argument is so erudite, get a map and mark out the distribution of the feral ferret colonies. What? There are none? Then the hypothesis that has failed needs to be discarded. Missed the low curve. Step up in the box and choke up. If the hypothesis that reaction to crying babies proves nondomestication, then you have indeed proved the ferret is nondomesticated. But so are cats and dogs because they also have hunting and sound-reaction instincts. I believe you have confused "domestication" with behavior changes. The trouble with your argument is, behavior changes are not a requirement of domestication. Corn still grows towards the light, does it not? Corn is clearly domesticated, as are wheat, rye, goldfish, cavies, turkeys and chickens, yet not one of those species have significant behavioral changes from their wild kin. The fact is, while some modification of behavioral traits can take place in domestic mammals, the basic instincts remain. It is actually quite plausible that a ferret might instinctually react to a crying baby, but you haven't proved it was a "kill" instinct compared to a "maternal" instinct. How do you know the ferret wasn't just trying to rescue the baby? Nor have you proved all ferrets respond similarly. Only about a fourth of my ferrets respond to squeak toys. How many ferrets have excited reactions to baby cries? No evidence means no theory which means you'll have more to show if you dig a hole in the ground. Perhaps I'm just being erudite, but I know an opinion disguised as a "fact" when I see one. Oops, didn't even swing at that slider, did ya? I don't personally think ferrets are dangerous to infants if the situations where they come together is treated with healthy respect. According to the Journal of the American Medical Association, 20 or more children and a dozen adults are killed every year in dog attacks. But that is nothing. Each year more than 100,000 children are killed each year by the most bloodthirsty carnivore of all; humans. I only wish we could test some of them for rabies. In comparision to all other domesticated pets, ranging from horses to cavies, ferrets are among the safest, and clearly the safest domesticated carnivore. I think the idea that ferrets might be reacting to sound is actually on the right track; it makes sense to me knowing predators the way I do. I have seen it myself, although in the case I saw, I thought the feret was reacting with a maternal instinct reather than a hunting one. I've also noticed a lot more reactions from female ferrets to squeals, squeaks, and cries than from males. So, at this point I don't think you can define the action as either "maternal" *OR* "hunting." But your other statements are way off the track, and are made without any factual basis at all. Please don't allow your prejudices against "erudite" academics influence your perceptions of the facts: there are simply *no* feral ferret populations in North America in spite of centuries of escapes and releases of large numbers of sexually active adult domesticated ferrets. In contrast, it only took a score of years for escaped American mink to become firmly--and permanently--established in Europe after just a few accidental releases. Those two statements are facts, erudite or not, and disagrement with *why* they may be so doesn't alter their validity. Bob C and 19 MO Raisin Hoggs (Missing Jet and Pooh) [Posted in FML issue 2255]