Hello Everyone, I wanted to clarify a couple of things on my recent post on adrenal disease. I did not mean to upset Bob Church so, I was trying to offer a differing view point. As far as surgery being a cure, you have a tumor and/or tumors. They are successfully and completely removed. To me, that indicates a cure. The surgery does not remove the causitive factors for the disease, whatever they are. Let me give an example of what I meant. My mother had cervical cancer when she was 37. She had a hysterectomy. After many years of follow up exam, no signs of cancer. She reaches the age of 59 and dies from lung cancer. Would you say this is a recurrance of the same problem? I wouldn't, but perhaps it is just differing semantics. I was not trying to discount any pain the animals feels. I was trying to point out that the animals HANDLE pain in a much different way than humans do. My reasons for thinking that are simple observation. In my own experience with animals, they seem to recover quicker and more easily from surgical proceedures than do humans (especially you men, hehe). Besides, if the animal is otherwise healthy, any pain from surgery will be short term. And since I know of ferrets living 3-4 years and still going after adrenal surgery, I feel that any pain from surgery is offset by the gains. Also, if you are dealing with a cancerous tumor, you don't know what the cause is. Some cancers are viral in nature and some are now believed to be through a faulty genetic factor, that some individuals may be producing faulty Mitochondrial DNA. If this is the case, then you would have an individual who is prone to cancer. And since it runs in my family, in many varying types, I have to give some credance to this theory. I do understand that not all ferrets are good candidates for surgery. I also understand that steroids is a rather general term, but many people do not. When they think of steroids they think of predisone. This is contra-indicated for supression of adrenal androgens. Androgens is the generic term for what we call hormones, it includes many types such as estrodial and testosterone. They are very complex. I was just trying to clarify what I assumed was an incomplete use of terminology, for folks who haven't had such remarkable training in biology as Bob. That is also why I mentioned the cost of surgeries, because it is very important in the decision making process and I didn't want anyone to assume that all surgeries would run as high as what was quoted. And I sincerely hope that Bob C. did not think I meant to imply that he was trying to keep folks from surgery. I wasn't. The treatment decisions are very personal and because of that, I feel that knowing all possible viewpoints is helpful to folks trying to make a sometimes very agonizing decision. This always helps me when decided treatments, and even though I have plenty of money for treatments, the cost vs. ultimate good is ALWAYS a factor. I was trying to be as neutral as possible on this subject, giving my opinions and even posting anon. to avoid the apperance of personal conflict. This isn't what it is about, I happen to believe that Bob has a lot to offer the ferret world. But as with many things in life, I do not happen to agree with him 100% of the time and I am willing to say that. Many folks misunderstand my motives and do not take me at face value. All I can do is say what is true for me and then let them decide what is their own truth. And if anyone has anything to argue with me about this on or flame me, send it to me personally or Noni. I don't want a public argument. I don't personally think anything important, really, that either Bob or I have said on this matter is in direct conflict. Medicine is an art, not a science, and should be treated as such. And since I am tired of trying to even write differently, you all are getting this with my name on it this time. You have no idea how hard it is for me to leave out all my idiomatic expressions. Yikes!! Maggie Mae, the Mid Missouri Maniac Mustelids, and the Frenzied Felines [Posted in FML issue 2154]