(HI FML! This is Elizabeth, daughter of that bad bone guy Bob. I'm typing this in for dad because he made me feel guilty about driving his car to Chicago and back. Great trip and I got credit in my education class! And I managed to not get plowed by a Federal Express truck like someone I know and might like just a little) Q: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post something about ferret food. Is it bad to give raw meat? Are ferret digestive systems that much different than polecats? I heard fish and milk is bad for them. Please help settle the controversy. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!! Have I missed something? Darn! The good stuff only happens when my eyes are so blurry Danny Devito looks like Kathleen Turner and when Elizabeth isn't around to read it for me. I can't wait to read those FMLs. Anyway, I'm probably inadvertantly stepping on someone's toes. Sorry. First the polecat/ferret stuff. I checked my data base, ran it through Current Contents, Biological Abstracts, MedLine and MESH, then called the vet school and talked for an hour with a vet professor of comparative physiology and came up with absolutely nothing that would suggest the polecat's intestinal tract was any different from that of the ferret. (Or any other carnivore's for that matter). Ferrets *are* slightly different from polecats, 'tis true. But those differences are in matter of degree rather than in new stuff. Every behavioral and physical difference in ferrets can be found in polecats to a much lesser degree, and the reverse is true as well. What is different is significant, but the significant differences are mostly in *behavior* rather than physiology. The ferret's digestive system is essentially identical to that of the polecat, (as is maybe 98% of its body) unless someone is holding out with unpublished information. It makes no sense to expect any significant difference, considering they have been paid for their hunting labors with fresh meat for the last couple of thousand years. The data I've seen regarding the diet of New Zealand feral ferrets suggest they eat about the same stuff as wild polecats, which is a generalist diet consisting of amphibians, small birds, rodents, rabbits, fish, gastropods (snails), and insects, with the occasional herb/fruit thrown in. This reflects their preference for marshes and small streams. If anyone suggested to me that the digestive tract of the ferret was *ANY* different from that of the polecat, I would demand a refereed source from a reliable publication. It just doesn't make sense; dogs have been domesticated about 15,000 years, and cats for about 4500 years and (excluding a couple of the extremely inbred breeds) there are no significant differences in their gastrointestinal tracts. The ferret has been domesticated for 2500 years, and I'm expected to believe major physiological differences have occurred in its intestinal tract? I say prove it. Fish or cut bait. A lot of times (not every time), what you see wrong is a reaction of a low-fiber monotonous diet. This is not a "natural" diet by any means, but the animal's physiology can adapt to it. Unfortunately, once adapted, changing the diet by introducing new foods *can* cause problems, but the problem is not the *food*, but the diet. Some have claimed pets will only eat bad food when offered to them. Well, yes and no. Sure they love the good stuff, but they also eat the healthy stuff. Do you know how a diet is formulated for an animal by professional animal caregivers? A recent issue of Zoo Biology talks about it. They carefully weigh a lot of different foods, offer them all at once, and see what is eaten. THEN the diet is formulated to those proportions. I've said it before and I will say it again. Animals know what food to eat. As for food, well, its a can of worms. A diet of nothing but lean meat is *NOT* good for any carnivore. They *NEED* fat and they need a source of calcium. Countless pet carnivores develop rickets when fed lean meat diets, or suffer from the effects of a diet lacking essential fatty acids or fat soluble vitamins. Small carnivores evolved eating entire carcasses, hair, hide and toenails. Such a diet, for *ANY* carnivore, domesticated or not, would be a good one, providing the carcasses fed to the animals were in good condition. (Get some recent copies of Zoo Biology, Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition or Journal of Raptor Research to confirm this if you don't belive me). So, if you asked me if a diet of beef, alternated with poultry, fish, and the occasional bone was good for a ferret, I would say absolutely, and good for you! Throw in a mouse and a frog and I'll kiss you. (Offer not valid to ugly guys) Thats not to say I am against pelleted foods. Not at all. Modern pelleted foods, from reliable sources, approximate the composition of the small carnivore diet without depleting the neighborhood of squirrels. I mean, how many squirrels can you run over, anyway? Pelleted foods are consistent in composition, don't spoil, are uniform from the top to the bottom, and you don't need a degree in dietetics to figure out if your ferret is getting enough retinoic acid or ergocalciferol. Between you and me, not many Americans know what is good to eat for themselves, much less their pets. Overnutrition affects the majority of the populace, shortening lives and making trips to the beach quite traumatic. Honestly? This is not meant as a put down, but I doubt if many pet owners can provide a "natural" diet as consisently good as a kibbled one. Still supplimenting the diet with "natural" foods would not be harmful if done moderately. Many times I've watched my ferrets scarf down a handful of kibble, then run over and eat five or six chunks of salmon. Then rub fish oil off their chins into my carpet. Beasts. Some people have real concerns about their pets eating any bone at all, and get quite militant about it. Others suggest that a diet should be monotonous-which might be natural for vampire bats-stating a vaired diet can cause stomach problems. Well, yes, it can in animals on monotonous diets, but not so in those eating a varied diet. Try eating a hot taco after a month of oatmeal. You'll feel it. You just need to get used to it; start slow and work up to it and soon you'll think jalapenos are sweet. As for the bone issue, well, I have 20 ferts and they all eat as much bone as I give them. Not one has died from a bone overdose. New Zealand feral ferrets eat bone each time they catch their dinner, as do all other carnivores. Yes, sometimes a ferret might choke on a bone, but no one can report a death. Ferrets also choke on bits of rubber, pelleted foods, and the ocassional smelly sock. Typically, the ferrets will only eat the outer ends of the bone, which *DOES NOT SPLINTER!*; it crushes, leaving the harder shaft for your bone picking-up pleasure. Bone is also a rich storehouse of natural irons, fatty acids and protein, not to mention calcium and phosphates. **ALL** CARNIVORES EVOLVED EATING BONE, INCLUDING HUMANS!! This isn't an issue of giant dogs eating tiny fish bones, but tiny carnivores eating stuff they were designed to eat. PROVE it wrong before condemming it, or be guilty of perpetuating myth. As for the fish question, I fail to understand why including fish would be a problem. Diets that are fish-only could potientially be a problem because they lack some fatty micronutrients, but I fed mine salmon, trout or tuna at least once a week with never a problem at any time. Once a pet store gave me a couple of pounds of feeder goldfish that died because of a defective heating element, and about half of the ferts loved them. Chrys and Bear *still* run at the sight of gold-fish shaped objects. I doubt if *any* vet can find something wrong with those two horses. A little comment on milk. The major problem with milk is lactose (milk sugar) which requires a special enzyme (lactase) to digest. No enzyme, and you could have the runnin' nasties as a result, but mostly its just hot air. (ho ho) ALL mammals are lactose-tolerant as infants or they die; some are as adults. There is a growing body of evidence from the physical anthropology types that suggest the body *continues* to make lactase when milk is a part of the early diet. In other words, a large part of lactose-tolerance is environmental, not genetic. I can't say if this is true in ferrets, but I suspect it is from the long tradition of feeding ferrets bread and milk. In America, this is NOT the case, and I would be careful in giving ferrets any product containing large amounts of lactose, such as milk. Small occasional treats would be ok, but without early lactose-conditioning, get ready with the TP. Now, from what I understand, a good portion of lactose is distroyed when milk is converted into cheese or yogart, so those products should be easier for non-conditioned ferrets to eat, but I have read nothing to support it and recommend caution. I do have a major problem with kibbled-food diets, but not because of their nutritional composition. I plan on making my living studying the remains of prehistoric human dinners, and have been forced to look at what animals leave behind to see if I could find differences. So I have looked at *LOTS* of carnivore poop, more than I would ever care to admit pawing through. The list includes African lion, Siberian tiger, mountain lion, hyaena, wolf, coyote, bobcat, feral cat, mink and on and on. Basically I put the poop on a wire screen, and wash the nasties away, leaving behind nice clean fur, bone fragments, pebbles and the occasional veggie. Do the same thing to your pet ferret's poop and what do you get? Nothing. It all washes through, and nothing is left behind but the stink. What does that tell you? Ferrets are strict carnivores, which means at least 90% of their "natural" diet is animal matter. I have yet to hear of a carnivore that shaves and debones its prey prior to consumption. Also, these animals have 5-hour bowels. (BTW, I can judge how good a food is by the number of times a ferret poops. Poor quality food requires more intake resulting in more poop. The best food = low poop levels. The idea that a poor quality food will damage a ferret might be true, but the ferret *could* compensate by just eating more. However, usually the extra carbs padding the good stuff results in an obese fert.) Non-digestible fiber has been *proven* to reduce cancer in *every* animal tested, ranging from dogs to people. One theory is the gut may look smooth, but it is filled with billions of microscopic pits, and the fibers passing through helps to keep them clean. Another theory is the fiber speeds up the passage of junk, reducing toxins, especially DNA-damaging oxidants. The exact reason is unproven, but the benefits of fiber are. It helps keep you healthy; besides as regular as a windup clock. A kibble-only diet is sorely lacking in the fiber department. My ferrets eat bones, different types of fish and meat, several high quality kibbled foods, dried fruits, and as many toes as they can capture. They have super clean teeth-not a spot of plaque- rarely suffer from intestinal problems, have a low cancer rate, never chew cords or cloth or rubber, and are all healthy as they can be. The only ferrets I've owned that have ever died from cancers are those that I've adopted late in life. The average age of my ferrts is 6.25 years, I have 4 over 6, two over 7, one about 12. I have two ferrets with adrenal disease (both adoptions), and one that died from cancer (adopted, but about 8 years old at death). In the last 3 years I've lost 3 ferrets (Buddy-cancer, Razz-stroke, and Gus-malformed heart stressed by heliobacter infection. I'm not counting Tiny Tim who died from basically from birthing complications). Crystal had a small tumor on one of her ovaries, but is tumor free at present. Now, I also keep my ferrets on a natural photo-period, handle them all frequently (and roughly), give them plenty of exercise, take them outdoors in the cold and damp, bathe them weekly, dump them in a pool, let them dug through as much dirt as they can dig, and act aggressively for any problem as soon as I notice it. My vet sees my ferrets at least twice a year for shots, and I weigh them weekly. Who is to say if their grandiose health is from my attention or my diet? I can't say. But I am *NOT* going to take any chances by eliminating any part of a method that works as well or better than *any* other plan. I'll be the first one on the block to embrace *any* diet that will do better, but the cost is proof, not inuendo. Also, I would *NEVER* tell anyone on this list my plan is the *only* viable one, basically because homogenity equals extiction. All ideas are good, and who knows, maybe a monotonous, low fiber diet is actually *better* that a more natural one. But we will only find out by trying both, freely and without guilt, and accurately, non-emotionally reporting the results. Bob C (And ME!) and 20 MO Rip-Snortin' Root Diggin' Ferts of Fun [Posted in FML issue 2126]