Several people wrote about Razz and her declawing. One writer indelicately asked if I wasn't spreading BS about attributing Razz's lack of upper body strength to her loss of front claws. Almost rudely put, but a very good question. (I have left the writer anonymous so no one will attempt to correlate a lack of tact with personality/flames/etc. As I said, the question is a good one). Normal ferrets constantly climb all over the furniture in attempts to explore strange new places. This requires jumping abilities; that is; lower leg and back strength. It also requires lots of upper body strength to catch with the front claws, and pull the rest of the body up onto the top of the furniture. They are also adapted to dig, and to our sorrow, do so in carpet and potted plants. They also use their claws as "fingers" to manipulate objects within their environment. Biomechanically, one would expect such animals to have skeletal changes adapted to his way of life, and indeed, ferrets do. They have a long extension to the part of the ulna that makes up the elbow joint (the olecranion process), the head of their humerus is large, and the part of the humerus that helps make up the elbow is massive. The spot where the shoulder muscles (deltoid group) attach to the humerus is also quite well developed, as are the spots where the chest (pectoralis group) and back (latisimus group) attach to the humerus. These types of changes are quite apparent in digging, jumping, climbing animals, and can be seen in tree squirrels, mink and moongeese as well. Removing the claws not only removes the exterior nails used to hang on to something or to dig, etc., but it also removes the third bone in the finger, which is the longest one in ferrets. This shortens the ferrets fingers and changes the biomechanics to such a degree that it reduces the length of the paw and its "clinging" strength. The end result is a greatly reduced ability for the ferret to hang on to something, or to pull itself up. Its a known fact that muscule disuse is highly correlated with muscle atrophy. Its also well known that there is a cyclic effect, there the reduced ability reduces muscle mass which reduces ability, which reduces muscle mass, and on and on. Razz was about 8 years old, and her declawing took place somewhere in the 5 years or so of her life before I got her so by the time I saw her, the muscle atrophy was severe. I have physcially examined thousands of ferrets while touring the USA in the last couple of years, and the only ferrets I've noticed with a curious lack of upper body musculature where those ferrets that had been declawed or have a upper limb disability. So, the lack of claws affects the biomechanics of the upper arm, reducing or preventing normal use, reducing muscle mass, changing the morphometrics of the bone. This can be a cyclic process -to a point- which can potientually impact the locomotor and defensive abilities of the ferret. End result, lack of claws reduces upper body strength. My particular area of expertise is bone. I am deeply interested in the changes to bone caused by domestication, burial, and cooking, and reguarly use a scanning electron microscope in those investigations. I can cut and grind bone to micron thicknesses. I have given papers on the subjects, was invited to give a paper at the archaeological meetings to be held in Seattle next spring, and currently have three papers under review. Still, this sort of question requires slightly more proof than opinion. Razz's body will be skeletonized and compared to normally-clawed ferret skeletons. If the declawing indeed caused changes in the upper body strength as I have observed, then it will be readily apparent in the muscle attachments on the bones. If a vet reading this wants to co-author a paper on the subject with me (presumably with sometype of declawing experiences) then let me know; in any case, I will write it up and publish the results. But honestly? The bones will demonstrate experience, and experience may not be scientifically demonstrated, but that doen't make it BS. Just informed opinion. Just selecting the humerus as an example. I am willing to bet $500 (winnings go to the Ferret Defence Fund) that Razz's humeri will have a smaller mid-shaft diameter, the muscle attachments will be less apparent, and the cortical wall thickness with be thinner than in ferret skeletons of similar age and sex. The changes will be visually apparent and morpholometrically significant. Anyone want to cover the bet? Bob C and 20 MO Sadferts. (Missing Razz) [Posted in FML issue 2071]