>From: Anonymous Poster <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: breeding practices >Everyone always insists "you can't make money breeding ferrets", unless of >course you are a mass breeder such as Path Valley or Marshall Farms. Does >anyone disagree with this >statement? Well, as breeders ourselves, I don't disagree with this statement. When one figures in the costs of caring for breeding ferrets (basics: food, housing, vaccinations etc, plus vet bills due to complications and so on) one discovers they're probably *losing* more money than they're making. Of course, if one doesn't take into account those costs, then of course there's a few bucks to be made. For example: When we sell kits, we include 1st and 2nd vaccinations (it's not possible here to purchase vaccines to vaccinate ourselves, so we have to go to a veterinarian for that) and spay/neuter when they animal reaches maturity. So that costs us, all told, about $120.00. If we sell a kit for $150.00, the $30.00 we "make" from the sale scarcely covers the costs of feeding, providing litter and cleaning bedding for the kits from 3 through 11 weeks of age. >The reason I ask is I know there are a lot of people that run shelters that >also breed ferrets "on-the-side", but is this considered a hobby or as a >legitimate form of fund raising? That depends largely on the breeder. Some breed as a hobby because they enjoy breeding. Others make a few extra dollars from breeding and toss it into the rescue fund. In our case, we do a little bit of both. >If you are fund raising, how many breeders do you have compared to shelter >ferrets and how many kits are produced per year? That's difficult to estimate, because the number of rescues changes as they come and go. But as an estimate, let's say, last year we took and adopted out something like 85 rescues, while we bred and sold 4 kits. So far this year we've taken in and adopted out about 40 ferrets, we've bred and sold 6. We try to produce about 2-3 litters a year, and have about 16 breeding animals. This year, the local rescues have had a large influx of rescues so we have curtailed our breeding appropriately. We are trying to maintain a good balance, not flood the market. >Do you seperate the costs of your breeding ferrets from the shelter ferrets, >and not just lump all care and supplies together? We use rescue funds for rescued ferrets. We use personal funds for rescued ferrets. We use any surplus breeding funds for rescued ferrets. Everything goes to the rescues! :-) >Do you physically keep your breeding ferrets seperate from the shelter >ferrets (in a different room, for example)? We have a "ferretry" that we built onto our house where our breeders and rescues and boarders all stay. New rescues are quarantined in a small room in our house until determined healthy. Jills and kits are brought into our bedroom, or the laundry room, where no other ferrets or animals can disturb them (besides, the dryer makes the kits sleepy and gives the jills a break). >Are your breeders considered pets (and get that special interaction with >you that pets get) or are they more of an investment? This is where lots of anti-breeder people get their knickers in a knot. As a ferret fancier, I love all my ferrets and I play with all of them as much as I can. However, when one is breeding one has to consider that to ensure a good genetic selection breeding ferrets must sometimes be traded, sold etc. And though we love our breeding ferrets, we know that sometimes things can go wrong during pregnancies etc and there's always a possiblity of losing a ferret to illness or death (just as with "pet" ferrets, only for different reasons) so we -- at least personally -- try to maintain a somewhat detached view of them. Otherwise it's emotional hell. And for reasons of both space and hygeine, our breeders cannot live and play in our home. They pee (mark) on *everything* and bite the dogs, and some of our elderly indoor ferrets are intimidated by the whole hobs. It's difficult to sell a visitor on the good points of ferrets when our home smells strongly and badly. It's a delicate balance. >When you list you shelter numbers, do you include breeders and pets, or >just list the actual shelter animals? Assuming you mean shelter reports on the FML -- we only list rescued ferrets in those reports. >Examples of the level of standards I am talking about are: >1. Only breeding ferrets that are not "nippy" We only breed ferrets with gregarious temperaments, though jills are sometimes iffy as they change personalities as they go in and out of season. If we breed a litter that doesn't turn out as well as we'd like in terms of temperament, we don't breed those parents again. >2. Only breeding ferrets with known backgrounds and acquired specifically > for breeding (not individuals that have come in as shelter ferrets) This was recently discussed on this forum. Most conscientious breeders don't breed rescues, although exceptions are sometimes made in cases of exceptional ferrets. We don't breed our rescues. >3. Following the health of kits and curtailing the breeding of lines that > have shown medical problems This can be difficult to do, but again, most conscientious breeders try to do this as well as they can. >4. All kits are sold to good homes before they are ___ age >and >6. Kits are left with their mother for ____ weeks before they are sold We let our kits wean naturally and they are generally sold between 9 - 12 weeks. If a kit doesn't sell, they stay with us until they do. >5. Breeders and their kits are cleaned and handled daily "As needed" might be a more acceptable expectation. We clean cages every two days, sometimes every three if we are exceptionally busy. >7. Kits are sterilized at an appropriate age This depends largely on the breeder's personal view. We don't like early spay/neuter, so we include a spay/neuter certificate in the price and a non-breeding contract at time of purchase. Some breeders prefer to alter before sale. >8. Breeders are retired after a certain age and become your pets or are adopted out. Again, that's debatable. We allow our jills to have a maximum of three litters before they are spayed. Then we keep them ourselves or adopt them to new homes. Others may have different methods. There are no hard rules for how many litters are or are not acceptable, although we generally also won't breed a jill when she's over 4 years old, or under a year old. Usually we don't let any of our jills have as many as 3 litters for reasons of genetic diversity anyway. >I'm sure you have other opinions and ideas, and I want to hear them. How >many of these standards can be violated before the ethics of the breeder >comes int question, even if they think they are doing it for a good cause >(such as making money to support a shelter)? It's difficult, because for many people it's an extremely emotional issue. There are some people who have a problem with the breeding of any animals (so where are they supposed to come from?) and there are people who think only large ranches should breed ferrets because these ranches are regularly inspected (really? Then why was the ranch in Alberta finally closed down 4 years ago, *only* after several years of terrible conditions and abuse to the animals and the production of genetically inferior, bad temperament kits?) Some breeders are very lax because they don't feel it's their place to criticize other breeders, while other breeders are very harsh because they don't like the competition. You're right; it *is* a volatile subject for some. Rather than have non-breeding types pass judgement on breeders (which is a pet peeve of mine, I will admit) I think it would be more fruitful if a sanctioning registry was set up (similar to a Kennel Club) where breeders would have to adhere to certain standards in order to register with the organization and become a "recommended" breeder. However, I think those standards / regulations should be drafted by people who have experience breeding ferrets, not by people who feel like dictating an issue they have no experience in. We've enjoyed the experience of various people who have never bred a ferret, and haven't bothered to ask what we're about, make extreme expectations for breeders part of their mantra, which only invites conflict because they set breeders up to fail because they *can't* meet those expectations. One "ferret lady" demanded that all breeders have several thousand dollars in emergency funds for vet bills or else she would slander the breeders mercilessly in her publications. I throw out this question: how many ferret *owners* have such an account set up? Shouldn't the altered ferrets receive the same courtesy, if this is such a realistic demand? How many rescue operations have a similar system? In contrast, we've had first time potential owners make appointments to view the ferretry and ask questions before they make a committment to buy. I have much more respect for these people, who obviously only want to ensure they are buying from someone who cares about the animals they are breeding. I accomodate these people where ever possible, because they want -- and will get -- well bred ferrets from a good breeder. It's a great topic to debate, as long as both sides are willing to listen to reasonable points of view. Reasonable meaning not being rude / inflammatory and not making unrealistic demands, from both parties. All we ask is that people learn something about what we do, before making erroneous assumptions about us, and I think most breeders would expect only the same. Happy Ferreting! Sheena - [log in to unmask] | "To Err is Ferret ... To Forgive| VP - Greater Vancouver | "... Well, That's Our Job" | Ferret Association (Wherret Web Pages Coming Soon!) We're on the Web! http://www.ferret.net/vancouver/ [Posted in FML issue 2026]