Okay - I want to put at least MY interaction in this issue to rest. There have been several "groups" trying to find a way to take in the excess breeders MF has instead of them being put down. I don't know who Alphachi or Killian have been talking to, but when Mary van Dahm, Judi Bell and I tried to work out an approachable solution, this is what we came up against: MF would select the young breeders who did not produce well (easier to place younger ferrets), select the non-aggressive of the group (some breeders are more difficult to handle than others), and spay/neuter them. MF asked for the following: - repayment for the altering, - payment for the shipping, - a commitment of taking X number per month so a process could be set up and consistently done. We never discussed actual costs, though I suppose $60 would be the ballpark. That is a LOT less than many spay operations done by vets. The biggest problem was getting the shelters to commit to taking in a standard amount monthly. Mary said she could only handle 6 a month with her volunteer staff to tame and train the ferrets. At the time I still was a full operation shelter and I could only commit to 4 a month and I didn't have any volunteers. We polled a few other shelters and not even discussing the costs, no one could/would commit to taking in late alter untrained adult ferrets on a regular basis. So we agreed this was not going to be a workable solution. MF does not want to send out unlatered ferrets (understandable and the shelters would have to pay just as much, if not more, to get them neutered) and if MF was going to ship them, they should be reimbursed. The big problem was the sheer numbers involved. Was it fair to displace all the wonderful ferrets who needed placing because families were moving, or kids were going off to college, or whatever the give up excuses were? Some shelters right now don't share their surplus with other shelters who can place ferrets quickly because they need the $$$ of the adoption fees to pay for adrenals, neuterings and other illness. This discussion has become like the abortion issue: "It's a child, not a choice" or "It's a choice until it becomes a child". Both sides have valid arguments, but the long run is this, if we could keep all the ferrets alive, then shelters would be over run, burn out rampid, the animal shelters would be euthanising the previously owned ferrets instead of MF ferrets because the private shelters would have to start saying no to take ins, and there would be a REAL ferret overpopulation problem. We can't save all the ferrets. Most people on this board know how I feel about "pet shop rescues". Well, MF breeder rescues are the same. I've handled adult ferrets straight from MF, and they are trainable, but I'd rather spend my time and resources on the owner give ups or the lost ferret who needs me. Now, I've said my piece. If you want to do something, tell MF that you WILL pay the extra for microchipping, so we can track the ferrets (lost as well as illness issues) and we can ALL learn and improve things for ferrets. Pamela Troutman Grant [Posted in FML issue 2003]