Well, there's a first time for everything, and I guess its kinda nice to be considered as such, at least once in a while. I am more often referred by my peers as one of the most analytical minds this side of the Mississippi :-) and perhaps beyond [of course, I must qualify this acknowledgement by stating there has never been any formal study conducted to confirm this]. Maybe I'm just weary of all the scientist wanna-be's crying out "where's the study?!?" every time someone states an opinion or experience or shares an observation in earnest on this FML, even when they clearly state what it is they are saying. The last time I checked this was not the "Ferret Scientific Forum". These cries are very often associated with antagonist or pejorative and extremely condescending terms that really have little relevancy or validity outside the mind that eschewed these posts. To put it bluntly, only if a study has shown the opposite of an experience can you use it to "invalidate" another's observation. The simple fact that no study has ever been conducted does NOT automatically invalidate what people share on this forum. Have I ever suggested that we accept or state all that we hear as FACT? Nor do I think we should slam everyone with some overbearing "studies" mallet every time they share an opinion or experience on this forum. It makes for a very hostile and IMHO, tedious practice. I am all for qualifying whatever is said in the context of its origin, i.e., experience, observation, opinion, some written source, etc. However, even then, these cries are heard far too often. It is getting so one has to tiptoe thru the tulips, afraid of being whacked about by nasty little accusations of hysteria, satanic alliances, or innuendoes of incompetence and immaturity, etc., by a self-appointed peanut patrol. Have you noticed lately how many posts start with pleas of no retribution, or "I am jus' a little ol' owner... or a defensive posture? This phenomenon certainly appears to bear out what Iam speaking of. I am not suggesting in any way that we abandon scientific data or its approach. just maybe loosen the proverbial tie a little. It appears to be choking the flow of information, good and bad. Three topics practically guaranteed to spark a debate of escalating proportions are MF practices, Linatone, and declawing. <BIG> has kindly continued to permit these issues continued space despite the hyperbole. None of these issues have ever been the subject of any formal study, nor, perhaps, are they ever likely to be. Experiences [expert and laymen], observances, and opinions are the only sources we have to rely on in these areas. On Linatone, another FML member and myself are currently gathering the experiences and opinions of recognized authorities and practiced professionals. Prior to this informal study it was generally believed that this supplement was safe in "treat" amounts. Very few appeared to me to be under the umbrella of unbridled use or even as suggested on the Ferretone label [a close cousin of Linatone]. Some believed it should be entirely avoided at all costs. Some have proposed "safer" mixtures that actually appear more toxic than the original. So as usual, the truth will probably turn up somewhere in the middle when we conclude our survey, maybe. The purpose of the study is not to vilify or deify this supplement, but to better define "treat" amounts, since this term is operationally invalid. For now that's the best we can do. I hope that is good enough for some. For those uncomfortable with the limitations of this forum there are three options as I see it. One, author your very own published study; two, ignore all the vast experiences shared on this forum and pet your fuzzie in the bliss of steadfast and righteous ignorance; or three, learn to better cope with the shortcomings of humanity and ferret maintenance. No condescension intended, just the hard reality of things. If anyone needs to exagerate my position or state the obvious any further to form a personal response please feel free to do so, privately. for the ferrets, best wishes, alpha [the warm fuzzy touchy feely kinda guy] chi [Posted in FML issue 1897]