Hi Bob - Glad things are going better for your family. Our prayers are with you and yours. When is enough? A difficult question. For us - when there is pain with no release and no quality of life (now to a ferret sleeping peacefully is quality). When the ferret is ready to leave and there isn't any way to renew them (this is a difficult one as some ferrets going through ECE at one point give up and may have been euthenized - with ECE there is a point where the ferrets WANT to give up - it lasts about 4 days sometimes longer- but with intensive supportive care both physically and emotionally they can come through well. Please, I am not flaming anyone - we can only do what we believe is best with as much knowledge as we have at the time and on advice of our veterinarians and each situation may be different). When Abbey had her first severe stroke I was able to help her through it, two days later she had a massive stroke and lost all senses except for smell (as best we could tell). She was frightened and screamed and screamed. I could do nothing to calm her. She could not feel me cuddling or kissing her, she could not see the tears falling from my eyes, she could not hear my cries and words of love and encouragement. She could only scream in fear. I knew in my heart that I could not make her stay because I didn't want her to leave. From the rapid eye movement we knew it was something in her brain, a tumor or hemorrhage. Keeping her would involve constant sedation. If she awoke while I was away she would still be frightened. Was she in pain? Not physically as the pin prick in her most tender spots elicited no response at all. She couldn't walk or even move. The only thing she could do was keep her head and neck up. Mentally she was painfully suffering. How I agonized over the decision I knew I had to make on the 45 minute drive to her vet. How helpless I felt not to be able to comfort her and relieve her fears. Should I try and keep her sedated and hope she would get better? Was I taking the easy way out by having her euthenized? Don't these thoughts go through all of our minds in these situations? To this day I still agonize over my decision to let her go. Thanks to Larry her last 30 minutes were spent calmly sedated in a peaceful sleep. She never felt the prick of the needle with the sedative or the lethal injection. She was at peace. It was all I could do for her. Oh and how I still miss her today.... Farra was only with us for 6 short weeks. When we picked her up it was not known if she would even make it through the night. She was in the advanced stages of lymphosarcoma but we had to give her a chance at life. With proper medical care she was pain free. With intensive nursing she became fat and sassy and just a night before her passing she played in a brown grocery sack. She looked as if her disease was in remission, a picture of an older healthy ferret. Looks can be so deceiving. I did not have to make "the lethal decision" for Farra. She left us late one evening while I held her in my arms. The decision I did make was to give this severely malnourished, terminally ill little one the opportunity to live and be loved and cared for as she deserved. By the time she left us she had known love and care. Both of these situations were difficult. Abbey in my making the lethal decison and Farra in her dying in my arms. Oncoming death is frightening and sometimes painful and evokes strongs feelings of helplessness and sorrow. Abbey and Farra are forever in my heart as are all the others that I have been blessed to have known. Knowing when is enough is difficult. We can only do what we believe to be best for our own little ones at the time. Hugs to all. tle (aka Sprite) [Posted in FML issue 1831]