Please read this carefully. I DO NOT SUPPORT ALL OF MARSHALL FARMS POLICIES. I say this all the time. I ALSO DO NOT SUPPORT LIES. The end does not justify the means. I really do not care who you support or do not support. There are shelters that I do not support because of things I know about them and their policies. BIG will not let us go certain directions so I will support his wishes and not go beyond that statement. >I do not know what you have heard about MF, I have stated what I have >learned or researched I know your source. You use exactly the same pieces of (non-)evidence. Based on your source's reporting about me personally (which I know was sent to you) I can assure you that your source completely lacks credibilty. BIG will not me elaborate on aspects of this as well. >If you breed colors to colors, you will get variations. You just gave an argument that MF must do careful breeding, while you argue that MF must be condemned because they don't do careful breeding. It is Pam Grant who assures us that MF did introduce new bloodlines. With the large number of ferrets MF has they have to have genetic diversity compared to all other ferret breeders I know. You give a detailed account of how a "closed" systems still begats diversity. >Five years ago, most ferrets on the market were either sable, cinnamon >or albino. You mean sable, chocolate, black (silver) mitt and albino. Champagne (cinnamon) is still relatively rare. Though some hobby breeders specialize in them. >the last five vets that I spoke to about this issue pointed the finger >directly at inbreeding as to the cause of the longevity of ferrets dropping Please refer me to these vets. If they have information I do not I would love to hear it. But I've only heard two people say that ferret life expectancy is dropping. If others have this information I hope they share it. >The dog world has "puppy mills" - where thousands of bitches are bred >continuously in 1' x 1' cages and producing the most popular breeds of >dogs. What type of dog fits in one foot square? Even my Pomeranian dogs are too big for that and they are smaller than some of my ferrets. Puppy mills do not have thousands of dogs. Dozens is more like it. They are rightly condemned. I condemn the ferret equivalent which is NOT the ferret ranch but the so called "backyard breeder". >so your statement can be misleading. I run a shelter too. I see everything you do (but a half a state away). So I have two sides of the issue. If all you see is the ferret shelter side you have as distorted a view as if you only see the championship show side. But now there is the even larger side of the issue - the average pet ferret. These are by and large normal healthy ferrets. Shelters tend to see the worst cases - people tend to drop their unhealthy animals off rather than deal with them. Show folks see what people think are their best ferrets. But at the shows most of the ferrets are just plain old good pets. The larger shows tend to have "pet class" or first timer" class ferret competitions that are not the cream of the crop nor the sickly ferrets. There are also classes restricted to shelter/rescue ferrets. I judge these as well. They are judged as "pets". A lot of the competition is not the ferret but how well cared for the ferret is. When I put all of this together with information from vets, the AFA, NAFA, LIFE, STAR*, FURO, the IFA, Modern Ferret, email I get from here and from my web site, and every book, article or video I can get my hands on I seem to have a different persepective than any individual source. There is not the huge over-population problem with ferrets that there is with dogs and cats. (Even the dog and cat problem is getting better every year.) Shelters can not provide the ferrets needed (wanted) by people. Hobby breeders can not even come close to meeting the demands. Ranches are necessary - and by and large they are good places. Most of the folks who founded ranches do care about the ferrets. Some are flakes. Some of relatives that have taken over that are not as good as the founders. Some are still just starting out. There seems to be an element in the "organized" ferret world that needs to set itself up as the savior of ferrets. This is not needed. We do need groups to work on legal rights for ferrets. I applaud their work. None of the National groups are really ready to put themselves at the level of the AKC as "the" National group - I personally see only one in its current iteration as moving that direction though. Spreading false rumors about any "challenger" to the authority of one's group though is definitely short sighted. Most of the scientists here, myself, United Vaccine and Marshall have had to deal with this. The same thing happens at the various ferret functions at a smaller level. So far the good guys are winning. If the attackers would instead expend their energy in a productive manner to work toward full National legalization and full National quarrantine policies instead of self-promotion we'd all be better off. I think far more positively of an organization that does not build itself up by trying to tear down others. I recommend far more heartily those groups that spend themselves on positive building than negative destructing. I do not think my shelter is "the best" and that others who have other friends have "bad shelters". Some of my friends run very good shelters. There are very good shelters run by people I do not yet know. There are shelters that should be shut down as they do far more harm than good. I do not think my ferrets are "the best". Some of the better ferrets are bred by people I know. Some by people I do not. I know personally some bad breeders and I do not know personally some bad breeders. Marshall Farms is not a "great Satan". Marshall Farms is not perfect. But they are by far the most important "thing" in ferrets. Lets learn to live with them and work to positively try to help them get better. bill killian [Posted in FML issue 1697]