Anna and Martin, Like Dick and several other folks here we have a good deal of rehab experience, and like them we just plain DON"T purposely insert foul tastes into the mouth (though we will put Bitter Apple on socks with a new one), or hit, or otherwise use primate punishment strategies (though we DO use ferret correction techniques such as scruffing and hissing). Have you considered that: 1. The animal may be in discomfort. Meeteetse was abused before we got her because she was "a biter". It turned out that she was in dental pain; a baby tooth had tilted sideways and instead of being shed normally became lodged between two other teeth once it left the gums. She was trying to work it out and she was always sore. A little painless forceps work getting out the offending shed tooth and she never used her mouth for anything but kisses again. Pain anywhere will affect a little one's behavior. 2. So will abuse. Do NOT hit her or force foul tastes into her mouth. Sure, you might break her spirit and afterward set off to foster the trust you need, but you may never be completely accepted by her if you are too well recalled for inflicting discomfort. Just because that has worked now and then does not make it optimal. One BIG thing to remember is that ferrets are really good at becoming stubborn, and your types of approaches could just result in more stubborness. You need to find some method which helps you control your own emotional responses. Try deep breathing or some other meditation technique before you interact with her. If you are nervous, or over-reacting, or very emotional she will be, too -- after all, she relies on you and anything which indicates that you feel danger will make her wonder if she is in danger directly or indirectly. (I know this sounds like a strange approach, but I used to work daily with animals which were able to kill me, and I can tell you that it works; so does pretending that you are an actor who must exude confidence no matter what happens.) 3. Baby ferrets play roughly, and a young one which has not been handled regularly is unlikely to understand that human skin is thinner and more sensitive. So, what you need to do is to teach her that biting will REDUCE play, which is the opposite of what she encountered with her littermates. You need to do so WITHOUT making her associate hands with pain. Try first scruffing and hissing as the mother would do with a kit which had misbehaved. Then place her in the cage for a short while until she has calmed down. Once she has calmed down bring her out, and when she cuddles PRAISE her well. Ferrets will practically jump between you and a truck if they think they will be praised to the skies for doing so. Praise, time out, and ferret correction techniques are your best tools. Some folks have trouble trying to act like a ferret, but face it, if they can learn the signals of our Order shouldn't we be able to learn their's? Re: Lysodren: It has been a while, but isn't one of the rules with this med to NOT give it with water because part of the reaction will occur prematurely? As I recall, we ground, measured the volumes of powder, and mixed it with Nutrical at which point it was accepted happily with very good results in Hjalmar for over a year. Could some of the poor results seen by some vets be due to water being given with it? David, Go to the Animal Medical Center on the east side of Manhatten. Their exotics specialists are among the world's best. (When Helix was ill we decided to be the first to try chemo in a ferret there. Talk about an area which has changed in only a decade!!! Just ask Katie Fritz!! (Bill, does Katie -- as opposed to Kathy -- still lurk here?) Their Bandit was CURED of lympho -- what... 4 or 5 years ago -- by following a protocol modified from one originally developed for cats by a vet who is nicknamed Dr. Lympho for all the great treatments she has created. I wish I could recall her name. In their case as well the AMC got involved. This is a PROVEN case of lympho with biopsies, BTW, NOT a suspected case.) Of course, ferrets learn their names. In fact, if you constantly use simple sentences (including conditionals) and a set vocab you will see a word knowledge of about 20 to 50 words if your experience is like our's. Here are two of the more extreme examples we have seen: Hjalmar had hidden his fruitcake. Fritter was half asleep. Said to Hjalmie was something like, "Hjalmer, you stashed your fruitcake". Frit got up and check HJALMAR's favorite stash places, rather than her own, and found it on first try. In the other, Warp had fallen asleep somewhere and it was time to put her back in the cage. Our guys regularly play hiding games with us so "where?" is well known. We have also slowly taught "then". Steve said to her, "Meltdown, where Warp? Meltdown get Warp, then Meltdown get treat." Meltie climbed under our platform bed, then dragged Warp over the platform and out, dropped her on Steve's foot, then licked her chops at Steve. The Crandall Place (No, our WEASL 1 licence plate has nothing to do with that e-mail sensual letter case.) [Moderator's note: I haven't heard from Katie for a while... maybe time to give her a call. I think the name of the vet you are trying to think of is K. Ann Jeglum, VMD. BIG] [Posted in FML issue 1478]