Bill Killian, has *another* controversial thread started? :) While I have not had some of the experiences you've had, I have had a few of my own. We're sort of isolated here in upstate NY - I only know of one of other breeder in this area - there may be more, I just don't know them. I don't really do any traveling either, so my show exposure has been somewhat limited as well. But, I have attended a small number of shows, I have had telephone conversations, and I have silently questioned some of the ethics and practices of "those who should know better." How ironic this morning, that following Bill's post about ethics is someone who purchased a kit from a breeder who apparently "didn't notice" that the kit had diarrhea; the breeder has so many ferrets it slipped by. That kind of thing shouldn't happen! Not everyone - breeders or shelters - mentions they've had ECE. I know this first hand having experienced it myself, and from the many telephone conversations I've had (I'm not implying this particular kit had ECE, I'm using it as another example of, IMO, bad practices, I've heard of breeders continuing to breed cannabalistic mothers because "she makes nice babies". From what I've read, this is a genetic trait passed from generation to generation....why would anyone continue to breed such a fault just for pretty babies? At one show I went to, it was an extremely hot day and there was no AC. Towards the end of the day, ferrets were collapsing like flies. It was awful. I had left my in the hotel room right next door. When I saw what was happening, I asked if I really needed my ferret if I got called back. I was told absolutely yes, no ferret, no ribbon. So I said @#$% the ribbon. Well, I *did* get called back and I told the judge it was too hot for my ferret and she said no problem, and gave me the ribbon. I will NEVER forget her for that. Now, the person who told me I absolutely needed the ferret in the ring, is a well-known, established Southern breeder. What about the welfare of the ferrets? Are people so blinded by ribbons and prestige (I don't want to include money, because there really isn't any) that they totally lose sight of what's important? I have been really disappointed with some of the practices I am aware of. Thank God for the FML where I have found that there still are some people out there who *do* use good judgement and common sense when dealing with so many little ferret lives. Debbie Riccio WNYFLFA DJR Ferrets Rochester, NY [Posted in FML issue 1280]