I'm peeved as I write this, you'll understand why in a bit (warning, more undigested chunks of bile coming. How does a digestive liquid come out in undigested chunks?) I'm really PO'd at an MD breeder right now. I wrote a while ago how we have been isolated from ECE here in MA. Well, the fates have seen fit to correct this for me (hubris always gets punished in these tales). I can't say for sure yet, but here is how I think it happened (I was out of town at the time). We had a vaccination fest at an FML member's house for some friends to get help from a vet that we use (curse the illegal status). One of our ferrets just had surgery, and because of scheduling problems with the holiday, he went there that night to get the stitches pulled and a quick post-op check. One person brought in some kits that she just gotten from a breeder in MD (the soundtrack plays an ominous passage). The ferrets all played together and had a good time. 36 hours later, 4 of our 7 ferrets began to do impressions of a fire hose (looks like they stopped eating and there were no solids present, only a very pale peach liquid, in large quantities, that literally jetted out). When we force fed them to get some solids in, the loose green ooze finally showed. Ironically, the healthiest of our old ferrets (my favorite too) was the hardest hit. We came close to losing him and are not even near the edge of the woods. The one with the medically treated insulanoma has shown nothing yet. I can think of no other way of contact with ECE other than these MD kits. This particular breeder was found from a recent video that unmasks ferrets. They gave a pedigree. Given that there is no certifying agency, like the AKC for dogs, I feel generous in saying this is of dubious value, at best. (There are some who question AKC pedigrees' value.) It may or may not be a true lineage, just trust them. They also guarantee that the adrenal problem was bred out, but offer no recourse if it does strike. As a G. Shepherd owner, I've had direct and indirect experience with guaranteed hips that were no better than the rest. A guarantee that the offeror gives without any provision for correction (like paying adrenal surgery bills in this case) is not worth the effort it takes to vibrate the air to utter it and is even more tenuous than that air. The real key and vital information that this breeder failed to disclose, to somebody known to be from MA (and maybe unaware), is that their colony has had exposure to ECE. Tell me that a large breeder in MD hasn't been to any shows (but on videos) and is free of ECE and I've got this bridge....... I'm not against all breeders, several that post here seem really good. However, there is at least one that I now consider a proven bane. For all this supposed care that a private breeder has for ferrets (compared to evil Marshall Farms that sells it's healthy kits to PET STORES - My God!), this is a serious lack of candor. I like the comments (and practice) that Pam Grant has about ECE disclosure at shelters. I never would have taken the risk of exposing mine to ECE had it been known that these kits would be there, and I don't think the owner was aware of any potential problem either. We are now forced into doing the intensive care routine and it sucks bigtime. I don't know if LIFE shelter approval grants ECE immunity, but I know now just how VERY casual contact with seemingly healthy ferrets can be devastating. I had no contact with this breeder and they have now done me wrong, at long distance. Any shelter or breeder that treats ECE as no problem, or something that a little extra care can fix, and then damns Marshall Farms (on an unproven allegation of bad genetics) is guilty of 1st degree hypocrisy in my book. A non LIFE approved shelter that is truthful about ECE is one that seems caring to me. I defy anyone to give me an example of a Marshall Farms ferret infecting somebody's ferrets. If an organization is passing on problems, then they are a problem too. Debbie Riccio, you go girl!! There is no "well, my problem is minor and, therefore, OK, while their's are serious and, therefore, bad" thinking that makes this right. Herpes is no better than AIDS just because it isn't fatal. People that covertly pass it are just as bad as those that would do it with AIDS. For those that want to take on the military to get them to change their mind about ferrets on base, please help us legalize in MA and CA as a warm up. Getting the military to change will make our job seem like a cake walk. ( )--(a) (@=@=) \ Till next time.......Rudy the ferlosopher O__) \ \___ \ \ /\ * ) \ [Posted in FML issue 1244]