Mike, In reference to the bitter apple we got it at a pet store in the mall. A chain store no less. Shouldn't be that tuff to find I wouldn't think. <G> As for fighting not in play, yes that is possible, but even when my guys play just for fun, when they get wet in the shower you can see the red welts that they put on each during play. That is just the nature of the beast! As for the Ferret in the bath...... I forget who was talking about this and I'm not using my normal off line reader but doing this on line live, soooooooo Make sure that the water is WARM. They (ferrets) like it warmer than you would suspect. I take mine in the shower with me and it works quite well actually! Some like to get wet more than others, but when you open the shower door at my house, 7 weasels come tearing around the corner, looking like a ferret stampede! They head right for the shower and even get in before the water warms up. Several prefere to perch on the edge and peer in while others just pile in! You certainly don't want to get in the way of the stampede tho! <G> Regards, SOUP in NC [Posted in FML issue 0768]