Here are the articles that I guess you never got last week. Hello there...all these postings will probably drive you crazy! I saved up enough time tonight to get through a number of issues and there is water in my basement and I am waiting for the plumber, so what better thing to do than play on the computer and talk! Re: #734 Neutering ferrets at an early age. Marshall Farms, as well as a number of other large scale ferret breeders, commonly neuter ferrets at 4-5 WEEKS of age, prior to weaning (they also descent them). This practice was started many years ago to try to prevent the death of female ferrets that can die of a fatal anemia if they are not bred or neutered (or given a hormone shot) within a short period of time. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Now we wonder .... there is increasing speculation in the veterinary community that the early neutering may be predisposing ferrets to at least one of the many types of cancer we see them with these days and that is adrenal cancer. There has been much research done on this particular disorder at Animal Medical Center in New York and at M.I.T. I have seen ferrets for 17 years and I have NEVER seen the cancer problems that we see now prior to early neutering and the huge influx of ferrets from the large breeding "farms". In addition, I have visited the U.K. 3 times and talked to vets and seen ferrets, and I communicate with practitioners in Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, and Germany and NO WHERE else in the world do they even remotely experience the cancer rate that we do in this countyry and in fact the average life span more nearly approachs 7-10 years rather than 5-7 as in the US. There is probably more than one factor involved and I am sure that it is a combination of things that does it. The most striking differences that I have seen between our ferret practices and those in Europe and Australia are as follows: 1. Most of the other countries feed their ferrets whole meat diets, that is the whole carcass, uncooked (including organ meats, bones) and egg products. Some of their household ferrets are getting some processed cat or dog food, but many are still supplemented with fresh, raw meat products. Question? Is the diet that we feed really the best? Ferrets are, after all, strictly carnivores, with the only plant material they get is what would have been in the stomach of their prey. Case in point, one of the most beautiful ferrets that I have seen lately in the clinic was on a diet of raw meat, eggs and organ meat products. The coat was luxurious and he was magnificent. In the U.K. I saw a ferrets that I would have sworn were 2 years old by their appearance but were in fact 7-9 years old and had been fed whole rabbit carcasses raw, all their lives. Obviously feeding these kinds of products are messy and fraught with danger of bacterial and parasitic contamination, and the possibility of unbalancing the diet if you don't feed ALL the animal parts...but "food for thought" 2. No other country that I have communicated with is interested in the "colors" that we are interested in and they do not intentionally breed for these. They primarily have the sable (fitch), sandy (cinnamon), and albino. It takes a certain amount of genetic manipulation to get these other colors that Americans in their constant quest for something new, like so well. Are we actually selecting for animals with potential problems? 3. The gene pool in the US is smaller than in Europe. Some facilities such as Marshall Farms (I am not trying to pick on them, but they are the primary producers for our area) have a closed genetic breeding facility in order to produce "uniform genetic" animals for research (yes, remember that many of the large breeding facilities are selling lots of ferrets for research as well as pets, in some places up to 50%). When I visited Europe, some of the old ferreters bred their stock back to wild caught ferrets. Even though the ferret that we have as a pet is domestic, it is GENETICALLY the same as the wild ferret and they can breed nicely and produce viable offspring. Do we have inherent genetic problems within the gene pool that we are utilizing? 4. No other country that I have communicated with neuters ferrets prior to maturity. In fact in the U.K. some vets consider it unethical. In addition many vets in the U.K. feel that the removal of anal glands is a mutilation of the animal, because it was an entirely unnecessary surgery (except in cases of disease). Although the reason to neuter animals at the preweaning age was certainly a noble one, (i.e. to prevent the deaths of many unspayed females), and to prevent the reproduction of the ferrets in the wild (a point that many state agencies still harp on), again, we may be inadvertently causing a problem. One of the theories (not proven, mind you) currently being expressed is that when the reproductive organs are removed prior to the maturity of the endocrine (hormone producing) system, (which includes other organs such as the adrenals, thyroids, pancreas and pituitary), then the "circuit" is broken and it may stimulate the adrenal, in particular, to make up the loss. All of the organs in the endocrine system communicate with each other and help to regulate each other's hormone output and other bodily functions. When a large "chunk" of this message system is removed, then the body, in its infinite wisdom of trying to balance and regulate itself, trys to get things back to normal. It is hypothosized that the adrenal gland, which has the capability of produces sex hormones as well as corticosteroids and other hormones, develops the potential to overproduce these hormones (I am greatly simplifying). In fact, the recent research has shown that when we see the hair loss, vulvar swelling (in spayed females), thinning of the skin, and all the other signs that we associate with adrenal cancer, it is NOT in fact primarily an increase in corticosteroids that are causing the signs (as in dogs, humans and other animals) it is an increase, usually in estrogen like hormones (estrogen precursors). Also, in ferrets, the pituitary gland has never been implicated in adrenal disease, as it has been in many other species. In addition to the potential damage to the endocrine system, I have never liked this practice of early neutering because esthetically it alters the appearance of the ferret. Sex hormones are important for proper growth and development as well as for reproduction and preneutered male ferrets never reach that nice robust large "male" look (we rarely see a pre-neutered male over 2.75 lbs and I used to see male ferrets over 3 lbs frequently prior to predneuts) and female ferrets get larger and less "feminine" looking. Female ferrets naturally should be about half the size of the male, petite and lovely. Now they look larger and more "horsey" (funky word I know) I know this is quite long winded but I thought you should know what the thoughts are out there. Hopefully definitive proof will be forthcoming on these issues and we can have real ammunition to stop the preneutering of ferrets. But on the other side of the coin, it will put back in the lap of the ferret owner the responsibilty of getting the females neutered prior to having problems with anemia, which means we must keep up our campaign of education at all times. Susan Brown, D.V.M. Re: #734 Rabies Vaccination I echo and applaud Dr. Williams strong opinion on rabies vaccination. I tell my clients, that it is essentially a "vaccination against humans", i.e. to prevent humans in the Animal Control Agencies from taking their pet in the unlikely event that it bites someone and removing its head for rabies exam. With a rabies vaccination, they don't do that here. Unfortunately, in Illinois, ferrets are still considered wild animals, so they do have the right to confiscate if they want to without proper rabies vaccination. Susan Brown, D.V.M. Re: #734 Peppermint Be careful with any sugary snacks...I know ferrets go nuts for them, but diabetes is a problem and all the cases of diabetes that I have seen that occured naturally were caused by the owners feeding sugary products to their pets. The ferret pancreas is not equipped to handle this high sugar levels. Perhaps Dr. Williams, who knows more about the pathology of this organ would like to comment also. Susan Brown,D.V.M. Re: Ferret Books THe best ferret book out there now is A Practical Guide to Ferrets by Deborah Jeans. It is excellent, easy to read, very thorough, up to date (no I don't get any royalites) and written with a lot of love and care. It is rare that I, as a long time ferret vet and owner, find a book that I can completely recommend. They will be increasingly available at ferret shelters, and book stores and veterinarians. She offers special rates to ferret shelters. To contact her, her address is: Deborah Jeans Ferrets Inc. P.O. Box 450099 Miami, FL 33245-0099 FAX: 305-285-6963 Susan A. Brown, D.V.M. Re: 735 Taking food away overnight I agree that it is not a good idea to take food away overnight. Ferrets have a gi transit time (the time it takes to get from mouth to the other end) of about 3-4 hours. In ferrets over 3 years of age where we see an increased incidence of insulinoma (cancer of the pancreas which results in low blood sugar) which can be seriously aggravated by an overnight fast..i.e. the blood sugar could drop dangerously low in animals with advanced disease. In youngsters under 3 it is probably not a problem. If you look at ferrets in the wild, they would make a kill, gorge themselves, then sleep for many hours, up to 8 or more and their blood sugar is regulated by calling reserves from the liver. However, in this country, with the the high incidence of cancer over 3 years of age, it would probably be best if we didn't practice overnight fasts in general. Susan Brown, D.V.M. Re: #734 & 735 Lab Animal Vets on FML The dialog on this subject has been excellent. There have been well thought out discussions on both sides. Judith Manning and her wonderful husband Dean, has had personal experience with these critters in research and her points were well taken. Ann Davis's comments were eloquent and poignant. Ultimately the powers that be who run the FML will make the decision as to whether the Lab vets should have access. You have already read my comments several issues ago, but I want to make clear that I do not prefer that animals be used for research. Being a cancer patient myself, I do not care if my life is shortened because they didn't do research on an animal to discover a "cure". I love all my critters (ferrets, dogs, cats, hedgehogs, reptiles, birds, etc) and find it difficult to think about the whole research issue. But on the other side I am a realist and I realize that animal research is not going to go away instantaneously. It has changed and lessened due to the efforts of many groups, but it will be with us for a while. Now labs are more concerned with "environmental enrichment" to make these critters lives more comfortable, whether it is hiding spots, toys in their cages more contact with humans or conspecifics, the concern is there and the changes are being made. In speaking with Dr. Eisele (laboratory vet) at the University of California vet school at Davis where I was this weekend, and discussing this subject, she indicated that there are increasing programs to not "terminate" these animals and to find homes for them. At any rate, I won't be making the decision about the fate of lab vets here, all I can say is as much as I object to animals in research, I think that we will make more progress making changes in this area with EDUCATION of all involved rather than segregating ourselves from a large portion of the human community that deals with the ferrets. Maybe we can teach them that they are too loveable to use in this manner. Enough said.. Susan Brown, D.V.M. Re:#734 Cleaning ears The sweet oil that Pam Greene wrote about is fine to clean ears and is less drying than hydrogen peroxide. One needs to realize that is is always a certain amount of reddish brown ear wax in the ferret ear and that is normal and protective. So don't clean the ears constantly...at the MOST once a week is enough unless you are treating an infection. Do not depend on the oil to completely rid your pet of mites either although it will help to suffocate them. Mites are easily taken care of by using Ivermectin directly in the ears at 0.5mg/kg divided into two doses to be used in each ear and then repeated in two weeks. YOu need to have a positive diagnosis of mites made by your vet and get the medication from him or her. Susan Brown, D.V.M. Re: #735 Sick ferret from Victoria Hadfield I have sent a separate email to Victoria, but felt that a couple of general comments needed to be made here. These comments are directed at the readers in general, not specifically at Victoria. Do not use antibiotics that may be potentially outdated as they may cause more harm than good. Antibiotics are only good against bacterial infections, which are not the most common problems in ferrets, especially over 3 years of age. You may lose precious time in the treatment of your pet when using these products inappropriately. I know that there are many of you that are extremely frustrated with the lack of knowledgeable veterinary care in some areas of the country, but there are a whole network of vets with experience that are available by FAX (preferably, saves both parties time) or phone. Find a vet that is willing to work on ferrets, and LIKES ferrets and is willing to LEARN (the three most important qualities). There are lots of good vets out there that want to learn and you can work with them...be patient and let them know that there is help. You are all familiar with the good work that Dr. Williams does and the excellent advice that he gives and we are also available, and can give information on other knowledgeable vets in various areas of the country. All of us on the list below would prefer that we communicate directly with the vet that is treating the case so that the communication doesn't have to go through more than one channel or person and we can talk directly to the person who is going to be carrying out the treatment. We get between 4-10 FAXes a DAY just from vets and it is a real time commitment to take care of. We are happy to be of assistance, but if we double that amount by having to talk to owners first and then repeat the same information for the vet, it makes it difficult for us to get everything else for our own clients done. If your vet is not willing to get outside help in situations where they are stumped, find another vet. Here is a list of a few of the good people (Dr. Williams is already available to you I presume): Our clinic: Midwest Bird and Exotic Animal Hospital, Westchester, IL. (outside Chicago) Dr's Brown, Nye, McDonald and Wilkerson FAX: 708-344-8194 Animal Medical Center in New York Dr. Karen Rosenthal, Dr. Kathy Quesenberry, Dr. Heidi Hoeffer FAX:1-212-832-9630 Dr. Jeff Jenkins, Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital San Diego, Ca FAX:619-260-1499 Dr. Doug Mader, Long Beach Animal Hospital,Long Beach Ca. FAX: 310-597-4226 Dr. Joanne Paul-Murphy, University of Wisconsin Vet School FAX: 608-263-6573 Dr. Richard Funk, Brandon FL FAX: 1-813-685-2371 Dr. Susan Erdman or Dr. Jim Fox at M.I.T. in Boston, MA FAX: 617-258-5708 Other names (that I do not have numbers right in front of me for, but you could call info) Dr. Deborah Kemmerer, Gainesville, FL Dr. Tom Kawasaki (I believe that he is on FML) Woodbridge, VA. Dr. Greg Rich in New Orleans, LA THere are many, many more excellent names that I am sure that you all could add to the list, and I hope that you will. THere is a powerful and useful network of us out there that can help. Another thought is that there is now an inexpensive series out, produced by the American Animal Hospital Association 12575 West Bayaud Ave. Lakewood, DO 80228 800-252-2242 for practitioners on exotic pets. THere are five books in the series and Dr. Jeff Jenkins and I produced the one on Rabbits and Ferrets (he did the rabbit part). It is practical, useful, has drug dosages, treatments, husbandry, normal clinical pathology values, diagnostic techniques that might be useful for your vet. (Again, I get no royalties for this, but I think it is a very useful publication for the vet that is getting started) And lastly...consider America On Line. We have a petcare forum (keywork Petcare for those of you already on it)with a section on questions for vets, which has a specific board for ferrets where your questions can be answered by vets and a Veterinary Information Network (keyword VIN) that is specifically for vet and accessed only by vets VIN has a board for small mammals other than cats which includes ferrets. At least 4 expert vets answer questions for other vets on this board. I do not mean to draw any of the traffic away from the wonderful FML board, but these suggestions are very specific for veterinary concerns, that may give additional information to FML. I would recommend subscribing to several sources of information...we can all always learn more (especially me!) Susan Brown, D.V.M. Re: #735 About Gizmo from mh7 I have to say you had one tough little girl there and you should be most proud that you got her through 7 years. The average life span for a ferret in this country is 5-7 so she did well with all her problems. Any pet is difficult to say goodbye to, but ferrets especially because of the way they can make you laugh even when you are down. I know she will always remain with you in your heart. I wanted to make a brief comment on the statement in your communication about pneumonia in the ferret. <advanced heat and pneumonia, we are told, kill most ferrets> Although it is true that ferrets in estrus or "heat" can die of a fatal anemia, if they are neutered within 3 weeks of coming into heat they generally no problems. Pneumonia in the ferret is very uncommon, at least in our area. Primarily we see lung changes due to heart muscle disease or lymphoma (cancer of the lymphatic system) One also needs to consider heartworm disease and fungal disease if you are in those susceptible areas of the country. I am not in any way critizing her case and I know that you did all you could and that she was obviously taken care of very well by you and your vet. I just want to let people know that if their pet has respiratory disease, there are several possibilites and that they should have appropriate diagnostics done to figure out which possibility it is such as one or more of the following: X-rays, blood tests, tracheal washes or chest taps. This is especially important for people who are treating their pets without benfit of veterinary care because many of these conditions will have the same outward signs but are treated very differently, and delaying treatment may make a difference between success and failure. Again, I sympathize with your loss...but it is obvious that she lived a good and full live with you. Susan Brown, D.V.M. [Posted in FML issue 0742]