Necropsy with pathology/histology work is essential. Toxicology may be needed, too. So far there seems to be one necropsy and no pathology work done (unless results are being awaited). If you need ferret-knowledgeable pathologist seen below in this post for two places with such experts! Ten months after the fact for one ferret leaves a LOT of room for a different cause. That does not mean that I am not keeping an open mind because I am, but it does mean that alternative causes can not be immediately discounted. Notice the links I put in the FHL earlier from a ferret expert pathologist and notice that even just waiting a touch too long can result in pooled blood, and can result in changes to the liver (digestion of the liver and decomposition). See the links in http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/message/17152 Besides having Peptech and Virbac check the samples they have kept back from those specific batches, it is important to consider alternative causes, and it is essential that at least pathology be done and possibly also toxicology. Both of those types of follow-through will help -- whether the cause is OR is not due to the implant from those two batches. (Or even if there are different causes -- plural -- in different animals at different locations; see notes below about some things that can cause hemorrhage and that ferrets in the past have also died of hemorrhage including before there even was deslorlin or even its sister med, Lupron available. Many ferrets have had Suprelorin so it is not unusual to have its presence overlap with a great many things that might or might not be related to it being there.) For those whose vets do not know ferret knowledgeable veterinary pathologists I suggest these: The Ferret Health group at Michigan State: http://www.ferrethealth.msu.edu/ Northwest Zoopath: http://www.zoopath.com/ It is also important to remember that in those ferrets for whom adrenal disease exists the disease itself can cause estrogen induced bone marrow toxicity which will produce bleeding and the tumors can grow into the livers. Ardith's one who passed did not have adrenal disease obvious on necropsy, but unless I am wrong (easily enough done) pathology either was not done or else the results are being awaited. As Dr. Williams once pointed out maybe about 10% of causes of death can be found with just necropsy; most data comes from pathology by expert pathologists. Furthermore, it is important to remember for those areas with record or near record pollen levels that there is a past history of auto-immune hemolytic anemia in response to the challenge of allergic reactions, and that there is a long history of ferrets also having AIHA from unknown causes. See the archives of the FHL and FML for some info on that. In addition, there are hemolytic illnesses, hemolytic forms of poisoning (including from things containing aspirin in some ferrets), herbs that can cause bleeding, etc. This may apply to some of the ferrets. Through the decades I have seen some warnings pan out, like when Dr. Ruth Heller first pointed out after our Chiclet's symptoms, that the first 4 or so ferrets with DIM symptoms might be showing a new syndrome because she had seen three with the same incredibly strange test results. Even then a LOT of people jumped on the bandwagon even when their ferrets did not have anything like DIM, and some jumped on whose ferrets had other illnesses with similar symptoms. The ones whose ferrets had similar symptoms were logical in replying, but a number of the others needed to re-read the symptoms and not panic too easily, though saying that does not stop that behavior for many. Saying that comforts some who are ready to think logically, but it irritates a few. Even more often in my decades on ferret internet lists (beginning with the lists that evolved into the Ferret Mailing List 25 years ago this coming December) I have seen panics run wild with what people thought was a cause of a problem NOT being the cause, so always know that a suspected cause is just that: a suspect ONLY until more in known and that suspected causes are not always the actual causes. So, at this point EVERYONE has to keep an open mind! Different topic: Oh, just a note since we *might* be discussing something new above. This is about what is likely *something else* relatively new although new to most people with ferrets: there have now been a few places with more than one ferret having the systemic version of ECE (Systemic Ferret Coronavirus, sometimes called FIP-like ECE which is a mutant of ECE). To learn about that go to the Michigan State link I included and use the resources there. I just figured it might be important to someone at some time to know that there are locations now with more than one ferret with Systemic Ferret Coronavirus. Sukie (not a vet) Recommended ferret health links: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/ http://ferrethealth.org/archive/ http://www.miamiferret.org/ http://www.ferrethealth.msu.edu/ http://www.ferretcongress.org/ http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html all ferret topics: http://listserv.ferretmailinglist.org/archives/ferret-search.html "All hail the procrastinators for they shall rule the world tomorrow." (2010, Steve Crandall) [Posted in FML 7413]