Of the farms MF (years ago when the USDA inspection reports were readily available) consistently did better than the other farms for which I saw inspection reports. If they still do then they would serve their own interests by making those reports and photos of their conditions readily available since what people imagine is often so much worse than reality once a place has been vilified without proof, but they have a tradition of not making those available so I doubt it will happen. Does that mean that farms are great? Obviously, it does not and it never could. Compared to good private breeders probably all farms are worse. Compared to bad private breeders (often called "backyard breeders") some of the farms are distinctly better, though some are just as bad. Good breeders being better than even the best farms does mean that public perception is not always accurate, though. It may be useful for some industrious person to seek current USDA inspection reports -- and not one of the over-worked people who normally do that since it is time for some younger people to make themselves stars through their hard work. I don't know how MF is since the elder Marshalls retired. There was actually a pretty decent commitment to ferret health there in the latter part of those years, with a lot of their own money going into improving veterinary knowledge of ferrets and even into better legislation in multiple FFZs (many of which are no longer FFZs since the more complete knowledge about rabies). Did that stop them from suffering from bad rumors? Nope. Back then there was one man who ran a "newsletter" which had a mix of real news and faked news. In fact, I was one of the people from whom he faked an article. At the time I was carrying accurate reports to the FML from state public health vets about how they were improving their approaches toward ferrets after CDC research allowed the Compendium for Animal Rabies Control to permit ferrets to be handled the same way as cats and dogs after biting instances. A veterinary charity, the Morris Animal Foundation, needed that data and as I collected it for them on a volunteer basis it was shared with the FML. Those who were not around for all the needless ferret deaths back then do not realize what a huge deal that was in terms of helping ferrets. Anyway, the man who was running that newsletter wrote a fake article with wrong "information" in his newsletter and attached my name to it as the supposed author. I had to threaten a lawsuit with the request of him doing public service hours in MY state while living at his own expense for punishment to get him to remove the piece. Horrid man. He'd done that to a number of other people, too, including multiple vets, writing incorrect fiction and attaching their names. He was the one who began the diatribes about MF. He mixed fact with complete fabrications. Again, I am not saying that farms are great, that is obvious. I am saying that if someone assumes that if they read something bad about another farm and then wonder if that means MF is worse, that they need to realize that the public vendetta against MF did NOT begin because they were worse than other farms because back then the reports could be gotten showed that they actually were better although larger, not worse. I don't know how they are these days, but compared with many farms they will still have better infrastructure in place, like their heated and cooled buildings, and their record keeping which varies which buildings' ferrets can be bred with each other to reduce strong inbreeding (though the original stock was limited genetically, and that is true for many U.S. ferrets in general). Even one of PETA's own slide shows of MF -- in the past -- showed that they protected ferret's feet, had cages on solid surfaces when kits were present, supplied nesting boxes when kits were present, and had white boards to keep track of essentials. So, yes, there will be things that are questionable, like having techs do neutering and descenting (which my spelling program wants to change to decanting -- which is what happens when an undescented ferret poofs :-) ). MF used to insist on selling their kits at no younger than 8 weeks of age decades ago. That changed when Path Valley (which does not breed for research or fur) entered the pet supply market with 5 and 6 week old kits. PV also popularized a number of the fancy ferrets while private breeders popularized others and some of the same ones. Some of the fancies have serious genetic health burdens in a number of the ferrets of those types. I do not know what PV's conditions are like now. Way back then they had a heated and cooled building and a barn, but that was a long time ago. Some farms don't even have a barn, and don't have even heating and cooling. MF used to originally just breed for research use (and was not a fur farm) until Wendy Winstead convinced the elder Marshalls to enter the pet business, and after that fewer of their ferrets wound up in the research supply stream. There still are some farms which supply only research, and some others which supply both. For example, you will find Triple F listed as a supplier of research ferrets, too, in federal listings for who bought which federal permits/licenses and in corporate supply listings, so do online searches and expect that search to get convoluted when you do it in depth. Years ago -- and i have not verified this so treat it with a BOULDER OF SALT -- I was told by someone who was then an employee at Path Valley that Triple F began as a fur farm. I do NOT know if that is correct. I do know that decades ago in the U.S. a number of fur farm owners did enter the pet market and that a number of their ferrets were typically unhealthy and short lived. Whether Triple F was one of those even *if* it was a fur fur, I don't know. Carolina Ferrets needed to move several times and there are past FML post on some troubles there which you can find by going to: <http://listserv.ferretmailinglist.org/SCRIPTS/WA-FERRET.EXE?S1=ferret-search> and putting "Carolina Ferrets" in the string box, then searching and reading I personally would not want to buy a Carolina Ferret, given photos and text they had up themselves of their conditions in the past, given the USDA non-compliance issue discussed on the FML in the past, and given some of the types of genetic variants they showed in their own photos in the past and the serious medical consequences which can go with choosing to breed such variants. That is just me. Another farm from which I would not want to buy at this time is Canadian Ferrets. There has been a serious infectious disease problem mentioned in too many posts involving too many ferrets from there for my taste. Steve and i have never had a Triple F ferret as far as we know. Things just never felt right about them for us. People can find private breeders through the AFA and see if they are keeping sufficient health and longevity records. If extreme claims are made such as no cases of adrenal disease or insulinoma then those are people whose claims I personally would find very hard to credit without extensive proof, and I think I'd look at alternative breeders. Remember that the breeders need to track the ferrets who leave their homes as well as possible, too, not just the ones they personally keep. http://www.ferret.org/ A few tidbits: our own longest lived ferret came from a farm that no longer exists when we first had ferrets we learned of a private breeder whose ferrets lived to be only about 2 years of age -- now that's a "backyard breeder" for you one private breeder years ago was selling pale orange ferrets for a premium and turned out to be giving albinos food mixed with something that dyed the skin oils -- I want to say it was marigold petals but am not sure any longer -- so once off the diet they again became albinos which she then said was an age related change one of the Southern farms forced to close years ago had outdoor rusted wire cages with pigs roaming around beneath to eat the waste -- a very bad situation including for creation of influenza variants Of course, there were other past horrific situations discussed on the FML, both defunct farms and private breeders who had their ferrets removed due to abuses, add well as distributors closed. In some states it is easier to go after such people and companies than in other states. The FML Archives has a lot on those. Anyone who has been around for any length of time has recollections and stories on this regard. Sukie (not a vet) Recommended ferret health links: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/ http://ferrethealth.org/archive/ http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html http://www.miamiferret.org/ http://www.ferrethealth.msu.edu/ http://www.ferretcongress.org/ http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html all ferret topics: http://listserv.ferretmailinglist.org/archives/ferret-search.html "All hail the procrastinators for they shall rule the world tomorrow." (2010, Steve Crandall) On change for its own sake: "You can go really fast if you just jump off the cliff." (2010, Steve Crandall) [Posted in FML 7174]