I certainly want to address all of your comments in this post so it may be lengthy to do that. But first I would like to thank you for coming as a first time visitor and whoever brought you as a guest. You, as part of the general public, are very important to Heart of Ohio Ferret Association and Rescue. Our walk-in traffic is one of the things that seems to set the Ferret Buckeye Bash apart from some other shows. At least that is what many of our vendors, shelters, speakers and participants say. This HOFA Rescue's main fundraiser for our shelter, and as such it usually operates almost to a break even until the day of the show where the outside gate and raffle proceeds as well as proceeds at the club table are the main source of funds. You are a target market for us on spreading education and support about the ferret as both a companion AND as a show animal. Many of the attending shelters get some of their operating income from the Buckeye Bash through sales at their vendor booths. I hope you had the opportunity to visit and shop many of these vendors and other areas of the Show Hall in addition to your observation of the judging. I, personally, would be happy to speak to you about ALL the work of putting on a show directly from obtaining sponsorship, judging, show hall layout, registration, promotion, countless volunteer hours, speakers, fun events in addition to the financial risk and benefits it takes to put on a show of this magnitude. To help you better understand some of the answers to your observations, Ferret Buckeye Bash is organized and presented by Heart of Ohio Ferret Association and Rescue. BUT..our show is an American Ferret Association(AFA) sanctioned show. As an AFA sanctioned show the FBB is bound by the judging and show rules put forth by AFA. All judges are provided by and trained by AFA to AFA's structure and color standards. Now for your observations: #1 As to a specialty judge referring to a rule book, since the specialty classes unlike the championship classes are judged heavily on color patterns along with other criteria I would prefer a judge that needs to "split hairs" refer to a rule book if there is a question. And to your analogy All NFL referees carry a pocket rule book which you can see them pull out several times during a game in conferring with each other or with coaches in assessing crucial game penalties and calls. And, even NFL games have half time and timeouts. I would like to have at least that same level of professionalism in our judges...and I believe we do. As for times when judges tables were empty. This is a function of several things. First, the ability to obtain enough AFA judges to judge a show. In the past, AFA has been able to provide more judges to us so that judging was completed at an earlier time. But with the limited number of AFA judges available, it has become harder and harder to obtain enough judges for travel to shows. And..remember many of these judges also have ferrets they are showing so need to get away for not just a lunch or bathroom break. So..yes there were times away from the judging table. HOFA, through the Buckeye Bash, has always gone over and above AFA guidelines for compensation to attract more judges. Still, there are some AFA judges who may require additional funds in able to make the trip. In some circumstances this may not seem unreasonable from an expense perspective, this does put undue pressure on shows trying to create funding for their shelter through a show. So in my estimation, except for the relatively small amount of expense reimbursement these judges receive you can truly still consider these judges practically volunteers for the love of the ferret and the camaraderie. Maybe for the economy, or maybe for number of currently available AFA judges, this year it was very difficult for AFA to supply enough AFA judges for our show. Two of the judges were myself and our show registrar, Kay Amrine. We are both AFA licensed Judges and because of the shortage of available judges, we both had to judge at this year's show. Imagine if you will trying to manage a show this size while judging. (BTW, four of the ten judges at the show did NOT have any ferrets there at the show.) I am truly grateful for the many dedicated HOFA volunteers and ferret lovers that pitch in every year where needed, only through their dedication are we able to, in my belief..put on a VERY well run show. It boils down to, if there were more judges available, each judge would do less judging and have more time to do what they wanted to or needed to do as also being an paying exhibitor at the show. If you would like to get involved so that AFA would have an easier time trying to supply judges go to www.ferret.org to see their judging program. By getting involved...you can make a difference. As a rule, we do stop collecting at the gate at approximately 4:00pm and permit the vendors to start breaking down after 5:00. And in a perfect world , shortly after that hopefully all judging is completed. We have accomplished that in the past when we had more than 6 championship judges. This year gate and vendors were on ended on time. Judges did the best they could do with the number of ferrets being shown and the number of judges. AFA only permits certain judges to judge certain classes. And..even the judges need lunch and time outs. As well, the FBB had to deal with the ongoing natural disaster caused by the hurricane on the east coast which at the last minute destroyed some of our judges homeward travel plans which had to be arranged as late as Saturday morning. However, judging classes still got underway. Specialties and Companion started on time. Adolescent class was over an hour late starting but ended not long after the Companion class. Which put it back on schedule..thanks to the hard work of the judges. The judges did a great job with the number of ferrets that they were given to judge and really did hit the average AFA judging time. As I mentioned earlier, Ferret Buckeye Bash is AFA sanctioned show. Under AFA Judging Standards judges are permitted to enter their ferrets. This is partially because of the small number of judges and the number of shows there are. Many of the licensed judges are also breeders for which showing is an essential part of their business. There are rules that compensate for this. AFA does not have a separate judges class as some shows years ago used to have. Partly due to the additional expense it would cause the shelter/organization putting on the show and the time required to judge and additional judges that would be needed. A judge is NEVER permitted to judge their own ferret, whether championship or specialty. As a quick explanation, a judge's ferret does not actually get a ribbon from their ring. If the judge's ferret places in BOTH the other judges rings, an average is figured in placement. That placement figures in which ferret places best in show/best opposite and for placement points but it DOES NOT get a ribbon from the judge/owners ring. For anonymity purposes ferrets are brought up in carriers that are numbered. Judges place a score card from their ring and mark it judges ferret and put face down on the carrier so the other judges do not know it their ferret. Many judges usually have someone else bring their ferrets up also. While there are some definite traits to some lines of ferrets (regardless whether the breeder owns them or someone who purchased owned them) the numbering system is thought to be about as anonymous as possible. Ferrets are not judged against each other but to AFA judging standards. It is encouraged that the judges that do receive awards have someone else bring their ferret for ribboning as there is concern on how it appears to an outsider not knowing judging procedures. As always, there are some judges that are proud of their ferrets and do like to pick up their own ribbons. And in a perfect world...there would be enough judges and shows that judges could show their ferrets in at least 4 shows a year they did not have to judge at. Lastly for observation #1 unlike the NFL referees you mentioned, unfortunately we do not have video replay. Therefore, judges impression of the ferret (disposition etc.), lighting, and interpretation of the rules (thank goodness for rule books) are given on that day at that time and they are final. Do judges make mistakes at particular moments? (don't we all?). This is actually something that adds to the excitement of the day of the show. However, judges do go through a stewarding period, training program and take a written and hands on examination before judging. Judges go through continuing education (a judges' training class is held several times a year and one was held in the show hall for FBB every year.) So every attempt is made to judge to the correct AFA standard. Observation #2 Feedback. Again AFA judging standards and rules. Judges are asked to leave three comments on the judging ribbon. Two positive and one negative that the exhibitor can do something about. Other comments are placed on the official judging sheets so that under later review mentioned above it can be determined how certain scores were arrived at and whether the judge was being fair and accurate in their judging. If your friend that invited you was showing an animal she/he certainly got a copy of the Ferret Buckeye Bash show catalog. In the catalog are AFA show protocol, Judging guidelines and point system. The catalog is available to all, even if you did not show, you may purchase a show catalog. You can find these for both Specialty and championship classes at AFA's website at www.ferret.org under shows and events. Again, there is a system for complaining about judging. Observation #3 The show hall is actually one of the earlier risks that I mentioned for the Shelter. We prepay it a year in advance. Veteran's Memorial Hall, in my opinion is one of the best show venues in the country. Luckily for us the hall that we use is expandable from the layout that you experienced. In the past, part of the area we now use was under construction, so we were given the additional area at no cost. For the PBS Special, we rented the additional space so it would be easier to film. To pay for the additional space, we would have to have additional vendors. If we have too many vendors, our vendors do not do as well. Also as mentioned above vendors and sponsors both have given us glowing comments in the past as we try to accommodate them in the best manner possible and for the best presentation to the public. We had over 35 vendors at our show. We know they are our lifeblood and the success of the show in both good and bad economies is an attestation to our success. this is how we keep the cost down for exhibitors as well in such a fine venue. I have faith in America. The economy will rebound. We are still the greatest nation on earth. And, while I may be biased, I think the Ferret Buckeye Bash is the one of the best ferret shows in the USA. As a comparison, since the Ferret Buckeye Bash was your first ferret show attended, I highly recommend you check out and attend other ferret shows as listed on AFA's website. (ferret.org). And lastly I would also make you aware that HOFA also puts on The Ferret Fun Fest show in the Spring which is on a slightly smaller scale (so far) where there is specialty judging but NO championship judging. This show is specifically for funding our hospice and is a much more relaxed show. The show still incorporates much of the camaraderie, vendors, education and especially FUN that the Buckeye Bash does along with the championship show. For information on that Check out www.HOFARescue.org. I invite you to our Ferret Fun Fest in the spring as well as next year's Ferret Buckeye Bash as my guest this time... if you will not be showing or exhibiting I would even pay your admission and arrange for a personal tour. If you have a complaint, question or concern dealing directly with an AFA standard or issue you are encouraged to contact AFA directly. www.ferret.org. I would very much like to hear ANY specific complaints, concerns and/or questions you may have about the Ferret Buckeye Bash, AFA Standards other show issues. Your constructive criticism is appreciated and welcome. But I do ask that you (or anyone else that wishes to ask me anything) PLEASE contact me directly at [log in to unmask] I really do not see a need to continue this on the FML. Thank you, Scarlett Scarlett A. Gray-Saling, Show Coordinator FERRET BUCKEYE BASH 2011 SAT. Aug. 27 - Veteran's Memorial Columbus, OH Heart of Ohio Ferret Assoc. & Rescue www.HOFARESCUE.org Ferrets, Ferret People and the Ferret Buckeye Bash! Watch for reruns of: FERRETS: The Pursuit of Excellence on your local PBS Station [Posted in FML 7174]