Oddities of the FML. A recent general consensus showed a willingness to offer truthful information regarding care, handling and feeding of ferrets; but when certain ferret owners supply such information they get drowned out with comments of you must show SCIENTIFIC proof! Jimminy crickets! If personal experience over several years isn't proof - than what is? Do we really need personal scientists to follow us around taking notes, comparing hypothesis, charting statistics, analyzing data? Does one absolutely need photographic or video-graphic proof and then how much of that will be claimed to simply be edited or "shopped"? I can see how it would be difficult for many people to even think there sweet snuggy wuggems could chomp into a hand, or devour another live critter. But the fact remains ferrets are carnivores! Have been for eons - will continue to be until the species evaporates! Not only are they carnivores, but technically they are considered HYPER-carnivores (in the scientific community) - yes - they are MORE carnivorous than dogs! But not many get the chance to live as their DNA prescribes because humans have chosen to deny them this. Just because many never get the opportunity does not mean they lose the ability. Their anatomy still has them designed to do carnivorous things! This site offers some good radiographs of human hands. <http://www.homeorizon.com/homeopathic-articles/orthopedic/age-determination> One is a three month old hand which illustrates how UNDER developed the bones are in a baby's hand. This lack of bone and obvious loose attachment illustrates how relatively easy it WOULD be to shear off a baby's fingers. Either by an animal or a malicious adult or simply accidental pinching in a mechanical device. This site explains in depth the forces able to be exerted by many carnivores of North America. <http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape2/PQDD_0014/MQ61307.pdf> if the link doesn't work search for: "Maximum Estimated Bite Force, Skull Morphology and Prey Size in North American Carnivores by Jonathan H. Wiersma" There are several members of the family mustelidae in this SCIENTIFIC study and the results will astound many. Jaw strength is determined by skull size, shape, mandible attachment and muscle mass. The wider. thicker, and longer the skull is the more muscle mass is available to move the mandible, if the mandible is locked into the skull (like the ferret's is) then even more pressure can be exerted because there will be no lateral movement of the jaw. Ferret's skulls - like many in the mustelid family are proportionately longer and wider for their body size than dogs, cats or bears! So proportionately they can exert more jaw pressure than these animals. Beyond the skull and jaw muscles, neck muscles play a part in biting ability and ferrets have exceptionally large neck vertebra and musculature for their size. The jury still seems to be out from the articles I've read whether the ferret falls more in line with the Mink, Fisher or the Pine Marten. That would likely be dependent upon the size and sex of the individual ferret. But check out the charts and even the ermine exhibits incredible bite force for such a tiny animal! Ermine average 2 to 4 OUNCES in size but can exert bite forces of 40 N or 8.99 pounds! This study was offered using Newtons as the pressure measurement. I'm more familiar with pounds so used online converters to offer a visual aid of the forces able to be applied. This is the converter I used: http://www.convertunits.com/from/newtons/to/lbs This means an animal that weighs less than my cell phone can exert more pressure than the weight of a gallon of milk! Couple that ability with slicing carnassials or dagger like canines which extrude from the animal's mouth - and ounce for ounce the ermine has a formidable bite! Another visual aid would be one of my ferrets with an average weight of 2 lbs would be able to exert more pounds of pressure than my shoeing anvil weighs! Or another more familiar illustration would be that 2 pound ferret can exert a bite force of more than what two of the stock 16" wheels and tires on car weigh! Here is an excerpt from the results page: "One of the primary objectives of this thesis was to determine the mean maximum estimated bite force in Newtons (N) for each species (Table 1). In the Family Mustelidae, the mean maximum estimated bite force ranged from 40N for ermine, 126 N for the marten, 207 N for mink, 539 N for fisher and 844 N for wolverine. In the Family Felidae, the mean maximum estimated bite force for lynx was 541 N, which was similar to the closely related bobcat (548 N). The largest member of the Family, the cougar, had a mean maximum estimated bite force of 1311 N. In the Family Canidae, the arctic fox had an mean maximum estimated bite force of 350 N, while the red fox had a mean maximum estimated bite force of 430 N. The coyote, the second largest member of the Family Canidae had a mean maximum estimated bite force of 681 N, while the wolf had a mean maximum estimated bite force of 2255 N" You really need to read the full report! End result is that YES - scientifically proven, the ferret, pound for pound, has MORE bite strength than most domestic dogs or cats! This can be a shocking discovery for many. Keeping this bite force and hyper-carnivorism in mind - how is it that we don't hear about thousands and thousands of ferret bites happening? Because it isn't in their nature to BE aggressive! They aren't territorial to the point of attacking intruders - intruders are simply new playmates! They aren't protective of their food to the point of biting the hand that feeds them. They don't form alpha/beta partnerships with their owners to the point of either protecting the owner or putting the owner in their place. Even when caged to the point of insanity their first inclination is to shred their bedding, bite the cage bars, fight with their cage mates - but biting hands only comes as a last resort. When they DO bite it often is tempered to simply applying uncomfortable pressure until the human lets go. Its only the unusually abused, mistreated, neglected or scared ferrets that bite to the point of drawing blood. And only extremely rare ferrets that will seek out human flesh to puncture. Patient, understanding people with a high tolerance of pain can rehab these severe biters to being the fun loving, socially interactive animals they are. Dogs are reported to go into a "blood rage" and will bite and rend until the victim remains still. Being a live prey feeder I have observed (albeit by myself - sans scientific assistant) on numerous occasions my ferrets in 100% predatory mode, dispatch prey item after prey item and I have ALWAYS been able to simply reach down and pick up a ferret at any time in their predation mode and have NEVER - not ONCE received a misguided or intentional bite! They are fully aware of what they are doing and who they are doing it to! Now I DID get bitten unintentionally when I used bare hands to intervene between two fighting ferrets. The ferret that bit me was in defensive mode from a ferret that had been attacking him and in a flash this elderly kibble fed ferret had bitten THROUGH my thumb nail and to the bone. He immediately let loose, but the speed, force and depth of the bite was surprising to say the least. I cannot say the same for many dogs or cats I've known. Ferrets in my experience are MUCH more aware of their bite strength as well as their intentions! I still do NOT believe that the ferret accused of damaging this baby actually did the deed. No way could attentive parents sleep past the first blood curdling scream of an initial bite. BUT the reality remains a ferret DOES possess the means to bite through a baby's hands and abscond with the digits! Cheers, Kim please visit : for ferret help and info: http://holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi http://ferretopia.proboards51.com/index.cgi yahoo groups Natural Ferrets [Posted in FML 6949]