The FML is an amazing place - there are posts with: experiences, links to other ferret info sources, comedic relief, utter sadness, absolute outrage, contentions, and even fluff and nonsense. The FML is a place where people with ferrets (newbies and veterans alike) can gather to "converse" much like a town hall gathering. Whenever such a myriad of people convene, there WILL be varied responses on any one topic because everyone responds according to their own experiences! Expecting all posts to be sweet, loving, charitable and not upset the apple cart is to attempt to live in utopia and totally unrealistic! There were TWO - count them TWO ferrets that expired (according to Sandra's admission): "So, we ended up having Wolverine PTS. Casper 2 went the next day." as a result of this family's visit! How many ferrets need to die before their caretaker stops the abuse? Apparently several ferrets were brutalized, not to mention the poor dog they antagonized like Sandra said: "The othersat on my sofa, kicking his foot at my 9 year old dog"; and what was done to all the other ferrets in Sandra's facility that those kids had access to? What Sandra posted to the FML MAY have been offered as a simple heads up to other shelter folks to aggressively screen the volunteers; but it was also a woeful admission of the shortcomings in her own caretaking abilities! I merely stated what many people wouldn't have the courage to do and definitely what the dead ferrets cannot say! Sandra SHOULD re-assess her OWN evaluations and employ strict adherence to her guidelines or else stop opening her facility to volunteers! To have two animals lives end abruptly because of ABUSIVE handling while supposedly being SHELTERED is INEXCUSABLE! Its one thing if ferrets in a shelter meet an abrupt end as a result of hurricane, fire, tornado, flood or other act of uncontrollable circumstance - but this was NOT one of those instances - these were NOT accidents these were deliberate mishandling of creatures unable to defend themselves and admittedly in full view of the person supposed to be sheltering them! Sandra posted what she wanted us to know - I am NOT an investigative reporter and merely posted a reply to what Sandra publicly admitted - I am NOT required to research or interview the original poster before posting my reply! This was NOT a case of ONE instance of catching a child getting too rough during play time - Sandra's post CLEARLY indicates that these people were invited into her facility and ALLOWED to stay and that Sandra stood idly by witnessing NUMEROUS cruel acts! The fact that this family had been to her facility before without any happenstance either indicates that she wasn't monitoring them before or that familiarity bred contempt and the family felt they could run rough shod over the place! Just because someone puts on their "good face" at the first couple meetings is not an indication of their true nature! Sandra waited for the parents to put a stop to this behavior when THAT action rested squarely upon Sandra's shoulders! It was her facility and the ferrets were hers to shelter! I challenge ANY one here to open their home to strangers and allow them to disrespect your home or manhandle your companions then quietly wait until the miscreants decide to leave! Sandra was, "just livid as the parents said NOTHING to these kids. Nothing!!!" and NEITHER DID SHE! So just who WAS there with gumption enough to speak up for the ferrets and the dog? Apparently NOBODY! Sandra obviously WITNESSED: "One kid had put a ferret in his mouth & the mother took a picture. And the same one had slung Wolverine around." But no where in her post does she say how SHE put a stop to such abuses! NO WHERE does she say she removed the ferrets from their hands and escorted them OUT the door! NO WHERE does it say she took the family and sat them ALL down and explained that you DO NOT treat animals like that and it will NOT be tolerated! Taking a picture of a ferret posed like that takes time - Sandra could have stopped it then! Some ferrets LOVE to "fly" and enjoy being GENTLY tossed on blankets or in baggies - but NONE should EVER be "slung around"! For God's sake just HOW fast and how hard and how long does a ferret need to be "slung around" to cause a bleeding rupture? No - instead Sandra's post admits she allowed this behavior to continue from room to room and ferret to ferret! Piranha, Casper, Wolverine and the dog were the only animals named in Sandra's post - but obviously NOT the only animals she supposedly shelters! Did Sandra STOP the children from pestering a known biter (Piranha)? No! Instead Sandra removed the ferret - when CLEARLY the children should have been removed! I'd be willing to bet a WHOLE pizza that IF Piranha had managed to clamp down on one of those kid's hands that Sandra's post would have been crying about how she is getting sued by volunteers! Sandra's post is a bit confusing about Piranha's broken leg - was it already broken BEFORE the people arrived? OR was it discovered (as other injuries were) AFTER they finally left of their own accord? Just the fact that: >The kids where allowed to jump over my half doorways, (to step over to >the next room) where ferrets were. and: >He insisted on jumping & running. indicates that the children did NOT understand the dangers to ferrets of such actions and ALSO that Sandra DID NOT PUT A STOP TO SUCH BEHAVIOR! ALL of us with ferrets have learned the importance of doing the ferret shuffle when moving around with free roaming ferrets and many of us have stepped on our own ferrets - sometimes with dire results; so how a "shelter" caretaker can witness and allow such dangerous actions to continue in their OWN facility is absolutely beyond my comprehension! Has our society become so "politically correct" and afraid to ruffle someone's feathers that we'll allow animals to be put in harm's way? Maybe in YOUR society - but NOT in the one I choose to live in! Am I perfect? I NEVER EVER made that claim nor will I ever - but I DANG sure would NEVER allow such injustices happen to ANY of the ferrets in my care or ANY animals within my view! Over the course of my lifetime I have stepped in more than once to stop people from whipping their horses unmercifully, beating their dogs because they didn't listen; I've stopped more than one child that is NOT my own from misbehaving in public or destroying other people's property! Typically the parent is not in the vicinity or has already admonished the child and the child refused to listen. On EVERY occasion with the wayward child the parent has thanked me and was amazed that the child actually listened to me! Some of these instances where I spoke up or took action were to prevent the child or animal from getting hurt, some were to just stop disrespectful behavior. Sandra says: "These could be good kids with just simple discipline." Simple discipline comes from many sources - NOT just the parents. Sandra could EASILY have offered "simple discipline" to these kids just by enforcing her own rules and curtailing IMMEDIATELY any infractions! Showing them how to properly hold and interact with a ferret and how to be cautious when moving about. Ever hear the phrase: "It takes a village to raise a child."? Adults CANNOT go around with blinders on hoping that the child's parent(s) will offer appropriate guidance - as the shelter caretaker Sandra established herself as the immediate authority of the facility and all visitors should look to her for appropriate guidance! IF common sense was NOT prevalent than it falls squarely upon the caretaker's shoulders to STOP unacceptable actions and either remove the offenders or strictly monitor their interactions! Neither the FML NOR Sandra get any apologies for my post or any subsequent posts regarding this matter! Rest in Peace Wolverine and Casper I'm sorry your last moments with people were unhappy ones - there will be NO abuse where you are now and you will now be forever safely sheltered! Regards, Kim please visit : for ferret help and info: http://holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi http://ferretopia.proboards51.com/index.cgi yahoo groups Natural Ferrets [Posted in FML 6581]