Shelter: a place of protection, a safe haven, a refuge from harm. Are the ferrets actually sheltered or just being warehoused? Does the FML actually broach tough topics or is it just a repository for rainbow stories? Sometimes its tough to review one's actions (or inactions). Sometimes taking a stand DOES mean you have to stand out from the crowd! Not every situation calls for sugary sweet politeness! Maria wrote: >This situation was out of her control This situation WAS in Sandra's control and she SHOULD have put a stop to the children's poor behavior the very INSTANT she saw it emerging! Children with "special needs" are NOT excused from treating animals correctly. You cannot simply excuse brutal or cruel interactions just because the kid has "special needs" - if you do you undermine the children who can interact properly! You guide their hands, you demonstrate, you use stuffed animals for intitial training, you repeat as often as necessary, or revise your method and demonstration until they DO understand; but you do NOT stand back and just let them do whatever they want! If the children are just beyond comprehending then they certainly are NOT allowed free access to the animals! Its quite likely there were other things the kids could have been enlisted to do without putting the animals in their incapable hands! I have worked with special needs children with animals in therapy/volunteer programs and often the children are a LOT smarter and can understand a lot more than what people give them credit for - sometimes you have to break down the process into small baby steps. Regardless, they are kids, and kids will ALWAYS test the boundaries! If you allow them to go beyond the boundaries they will keep going farther and farther until dire consequences are the result! We as adults, not necessarily their parents, are beholden to offer guidelines and instill rules. Children's good behavior isn't predicated upon the parents always being present! Good behavior comes as the result of EVERYONE the child encounters EXPECTING them to behave with good manners and compassion for other creatures! Volunteers being scarce does not negate the requirement that they can properly handle the animals! If they don't know you teach them! But you don't let them learn from a trial and error that results in an animal's injury or death! Maria also wrote: >It is very difficult to correct / discipline other peoples children, >especially with the parents right there. There is NO difficulty in dealing with other people's children, none at all, even when those kids are in a public place and especially NOT when those people are IN your home! Lisette writes: >What would YOU have done? What could you have said to be polite and >keep these people as volunteers? Or was it best to shove them out of >the door? Let us be respectful and learn?? What I would have done, as explained previously, is firstly demonstrate to them the safe, gentle way to hold the ferrets, how to move about from room to room. There is no "PLEASE" stop hurting the animals! There is no "PLEASE" don't sling the ferret about. there is no "PLEASE" stop kicking the dog. Behavior like that does not require politeness, it requires firmness and absoluteness as in, "STOP! Animals do NOT get treated like that, they have feelings too and you are hurting them!" Then you take the animal away and sit the child some place else, admonishing; "Now consider your actions and tell me what you can do to improve the next time, if you cannot improve you do not deserve to play with this animal." no fuss, no muss, simple, to the point, clear and gives the child the ability to reflect on their actions and gets the animal away from them. You offer the child another chance to play nicely and if the child refuses, end of story - they get escorted off the property! Apparently, some FMLrs would consider me to have bad manners when I am one of those people that tell kids on skateboards on the sidewalk to find a better place to play - especially when they are old enough to read the signage posted; apparently these same people would think it is bad manners on my part to tell a child to sit down in a grocery cart; or to please be quiet in a movie theater; or to turn around and sit down in a booth at a restaurant, or to stop unrolling the toilet paper in the rest room; or to stop throwing those balls in the toy section of a store; or to stop spinning a store display scattering its contents; or to stop pounding on the aquarium glass; or to stop pulling the cat's tail; or to stop poking fingers at the puppies; or to stop jumping on the displayed furniture; or to stop pulling the bunnies ears in the pet shop. If the parents haven't or won't provide guidelines and boundaries for the children and people in society choose to be blind, deaf and mute to such children's misbehavior then who WILL provide the boundaries? The way to get kids to act responsibly is to EXPECT them to act responsibly and to SHOW them how to act responsibly and to avert irresponsible behavior the minute it surfaces! Standing idly by, reluctant to get involved and only wishing and hoping the kids grow up right will NOT get the results necessary for acceptable behavior! Reiterating, this was Sandra's shelter, the ferrets were in HER care, she invited the family in so it was up to her to provide and enforce the guidelines or insist they leave long before any animals were harmed! Guess more FMLrs would be happy with me posting a sweetness and light post of: "Oh dear, I'm so sorry you had such a bad volunteer experience, I hope things get better." How will more "screening" of volunteers help? Wouldn't simply observing their interactions with the animals be enough? What if they filled out a perfect application but when actually handling the animals showed no regard for their safety? Alexandra wrote: >But when I read Sandra's post, I can clearly see her standing like a >deer frozen in the headlights of an oncoming truck. That might have been a reaction to witnessing the FIRST disrespectful actions to the animals - but it doesn't excuse the fact that apparently Sandra allowed them to continue! Because she stood back and waited for someone else to step in! I'm used to being self sufficient, I've seen a lot of neglect and abuse and suffered from abuse too - so I don't have a problem speaking up for those who have no voice. This situation, is made worse because of the simple fact that Sandra put herself in the position of being a "Shelter". This wasn't a situation where the neighbor's kids broke in an vandalized the home and abused the animals; it wasn't an accidental fall down a staircase; the ferrets didn't bear the brunt of an angry spouse. No, these people were invited into her facility and instead of stopping their bad behavior, she opted to stand back and just wait until they left on their own accord, as Sandra wrote: "They did leave." She didn't write she TOLD them to leave! Nancy writes: >The mother is a member of this List so Sandi did not go into all the >specifics. Every time something was happening to the ferrets, Sandi >stopped it. As an FML member then she ought to know how to coach her kids regarding handling of ferrets. No where in Sandra's post does she say how she stopped the children. Nancy says "every time".... just HOW MANY TIMES does it take for a ferret to be brutalized before you stop letting the kids handle the ferrets? Seems to me Sandra's post WAS fairly specific in what happened to contribute to the demise of the ferrets - just not specific in what she did (or didn't do) to stop it from getting to that critical level! Nancy also writes: >She is a GREAT shelter mom, does not turn needy ferrets away even >though she is over capacity." Which may be crux of the whole >situation - Sandra has too many ferrets to be able to closely >monitor the people coming to her facility!" At some point ANY shelter HAS to say they are full! IF the ferrets can't get respectable care from a shelter, then the shelter is just a hoarding place. Ferrets require room to roam, proper interaction with people, more than just a little care in the toiletry and cleaning department and there are only so many hours in a day. So it is no wonder a shelter can get overwhelmed and then has a NEED to turn to volunteers - but that only means one MORE responsibility for the shelter Mom- that of monitoring the volunteers! I've called to light MANY situations that were completely in Sandra's control and to see all these posts denying that she didn't have that control is bewildering; especially when so many FMLrs are shelters! There are enough bad things that happen to ferrets accidentally without bad things intentionally thrust upon them! Too many ferrets are already in the shelter because they were intentionally harmed or neglected - you'd think this would be the LAST place any ferret would come to harm as a result of intentional brutality! Sandra may be shocked and angry, many others feel sorry for her - but Wolverine and Casper are DEAD! Thank goodness there are other shelters and pet owners that would NEVER allow this to happen to the ferrets in their care! Regards, Kim please visit : for ferret help and info: http://holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi http://ferretopia.proboards51.com/index.cgi yahoo groups Natural Ferrets [Posted in FML 6580]