Misty says: >So because Maren feels the way she does about snakes and I feel the >way I do about feeding live animals to ferrets we are closed mined >people? NO, your minds are closed because you want to IMPOSE your ideals upon other pet and ferret owners. It matters not, to me, what you FEEL - but that you want to create LAWS that force your views upon other people that do NOT think or "feel" as you do. Yes, people that feed large snakes SHOULD feed RABBITS, guinea pigs, even piglets instead of ferrets; how is that "baiting" ANYone? >If Kim were trying to make ONLY the point to Maren about her pushing >laws then why bring up the idea of feeding live pray? I have had both Guinea Pigs and Rabbits as pets and my Pot Belly pig who turned 10 this year, was born in my home! I can easily separate "PETS" from feeders, and realize that animals intended as food obtain optimal health when offered proper housing, food, exercise and mental stimulation; this in turn, offers optimum nutrition to the animal they are fed to. >Why go into such detail? Because some people need things spelled out, and also I can be long-winded! >Why would you tell us the 2 of your ferrets are eating a mouse you >threw away because it no longer is producing for you? The mouse was not "thrown away", the mouse was CULLED because it was no longer beneficial to breed her - her last litter was very small - only 4 pups, and she was showing little interest in caring for them. They were small and didn't thrive well. Culling is exactly what ranchers do with stock that doesn't promote healthy offspring. Rather than put feed, litter and time into caring for a mouse that would no longer offer a return for my investment, I in turn allowed my ferrets to gain the benefit of her nutrients because she was a large mouse and could offer quality nutrients. I certainly was not about to let her waste away, die a slow death from "old age" or make her endure the very real actions of her bin mates attacking her, keeping her away from food and evicting her from the nest because she WAS old! The fact remains that the mouse was bred from parents in my home, raised in a healthy environment, fed healthy natural, NON processed foods, allowed chew toys, room to tunnel, burrow, climb and nest, was bred at an appropriate age and produced several litters of healthy pups, which some in turn went on to become breeders and others were in turn fed, housed allowed room to grow and then got invited to dinner! >You could have stopped after explaining to Maren what you knew would >be helpful to her. Which I am indeed grateful for as it seems was >helpful. I COULD have rolled my eyes and ignored Maren's post as well as yours and chalked the posts up to yet one more instance of hot headed, emotional, bunny huggers on the rampage demanding all animals live in peace and harmony and be forced to become vegetarians too! But I chose to get involved, I posted a calm, well thought out response to implore people to don their thinking caps before "going off half-cocked" and cramming their views down other's throats. Maren has let us know that true to that guy's nature, he was doing more than one illegitimate thing and the laws already on the books will likely do him in, as well as several of his cronies! It really is NOT necessary to create yet one MORE law! >Do not ever attempt to say how I am feeling. Your words were, and are, very clear indications of how you feel - there was no attempt upon my part to infer otherwise! >>Animals have evolved eating other animals and have flourished because >>of it - hence the predator/prey connotations - there's always a bigger >>fish - what was a predator becomes prey for another, its as simple as >>that > Right....IN THE WILD!! Uh huh, ever watched a tank full of fish? Guppies, gold fish, cichlids and numerous other fish have been "domesticated" and bred by humans for the enjoyment of humans, yet they will very happily devour each other when the opportunity arises! Oh gosh, many fish owners actually feed "live prey" to their fish too, in order to offer them optimal health. Even though there are plenty of pretty colored processed fish flakes and pellets to feed instead! Dear me! Horrors of horrors - even MORE barbaric pet owners that fed animals to animals! >Did you really think you would NOT get a response? Never did I indicate any responses were to be forth coming. People are free to engage their keyboards or not. >From quite a few folks who have email me privately they do not bother >to respond to you and equate you with Ed. They simply pass by your >post. One could deduce that if these so called people are privately mailing you responses to my post - that they did indeed actually read what I wrote! Elementary Watson, elementary! As for being equated with ED - pshaw! I've never authored anything CLOSE to what Mr. Lipinski has, and never would! Neither are my ferrets in the shape his apparently were. Albeit I AM outspoken about feeding naturally which is in direct opposition to what is currently the norm. >Sorry though I am not one who will sit by and not speak. No, you stand up, shout and stomp your feet! >So why then does Mother Nature give them defense mechanisms? All >animals, in the wild, have some sort of defense. What defenses have domestication removed from the mouse, rat, cat, dog, ferret or rabbit? They all retain their teeth, claws, reactions and instincts of their wild counterparts and ancestors. While some instincts are subdued it doesn't take long for them to resurface and become fully engaged! One litter is all it takes for a cat to become feral. By the third generation a dog is considered feral. Mice and rats will go feral within weeks of being free from a cage! Rabbits (if they survive natural predators as well as domestic cats and dogs) will have feral kits in the first litter! When I put a live mouse in the tank with my snake, or on the bathroom floor for my ferrets - they have all their teeth and claws. The mice can and have employed them. Just as the prey have defenses that mother nature supplied to them, my ferrets and the snake have tools designed to dispatch the prey efficiently, quickly and cleanly. The prey are dispatched one on one, mano y mano; which IMO is more prudent than suffocating the prey with CO2 by the dozens while the terrified animals scratch, claw, bite one another, peeing and defecating upon one another while they gasp their last breath. And it certainly is more humane than bashing their head to stun them, or stretching their neck until cervical separation occurs which paralyzes them, but leaves them still breathing and mentally aware! Ferrets are the ideal rodent hunters and killers - mother nature supplied them with a keen nose, intelligence, powerful arms, strong claws, speed, tenacity, and superb teeth spaced and shaped ideally to easily dispatch their prey! I see no need to deny them what comes naturally. The ferrets I've adopted that only knew kibble up to that point have ONLY blossomed and improved when offered the opportunity to utilize what Mother Nature supplied to them. The fact that they are domestic and have generations of breeding behind them only ensures they can readily interact with humans and within a human's environment! >You talk of throwing rabbits to snakes inside a cage with no way to >protect itself. I didn't say ANYthing about throwing rabbits anywhere - just that snakes should be fed rabbits instead of ferrets and that my ferrets DO eat Rabbit! >This is NOT as nature intended. "Nature" never INTENDED animals to be domesticated by man! But someone did, eons ago decide they thought certain animals offered benefits and could be utilized as tools in order that man could improve their position on earth. Nature didn't intend dogs to be miniature or have flat faces or long backs and stubby legs. Nature didn't intend cats to have flat faces and long fur, or shortened limbs. Nature didn't intend rabbits to have floppy ears or long fluffy fur. Nature didn't intend for guppies to be neon, or goldfish to have bulbous eyes. These are all things bred into the animals by man as man domesticated natural animals and developed various breeds and types of those animals! Yet for all that breeding and developing - the animal's dietary needs and digestive system have NOT become altered! Ferrets were first domesticated to control vermin; ie, rats, mice and other rodents as well as to aid in putting food on the table as in HUNTING for rabbits! >Again who are you to say? Someone that has perfect "say" over what to offer to my animal companions! I do NOT wish to have that SAY stifled, limited or denied by laws enacted from people who cannot see the true nature of their animal companions. >That is all I have to say about this. That remains to be seen... but wait! You've said MORE!... >Please understand it is not you I dislike, by no means, it is your >practices. Yet I am NOT the one attempting to enact LAWS to force people to choose a so called "proper pet" or to prescribe what to feed it! >And yes everyone has the right to their opinion, Only as long as that opinion agrees with the "norm" or else keep it to yourself, eh? >but maybe next time it would be best to think before you speak >especially to an "animal lover group." This is the "Ferret Mailing List" is it not? A place where ferret owners of all kinds from around the world can share their experiences with their ferrets; OR is this the "FLUFFY mailing list"? Where the only things exchanged are sugar coated fluff stories? What I am offering for my animals is in no way detrimental to their health or well being. I am able to offer above and beyond what is considered the "norm". I certainly do NOT need an erroneous law forcing me to feed them a product that studies, science and nature proves is detrimental to their health jut because it doesn't fit some one's view of "ideal"! -- please visit : for ferret help and info: http://holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi http://ferretopia.proboards51.com/index.cgi yahoo groups Natural Ferrets for fun: www.vanityferret.com (password required: "FerretsRfun") [Posted in FML 6388]