[Moderator's note: I had to think about this one a little and even request the post is toned down a bit. Personally, I think this is tame enough and educational and doesn't extend the debate. If people are bothered by posts like this I'll be a bit stricter with the moratorium. BIG] It seems that the raw vs kibble debate has actually continued, though looking at the problem from a slightly different perspective - the question of what ferrets can or cannot digest. So, I thought I would jump in with my 2 cents on the subject. Since the discussion is about whether or not ferrets can digest plant matter, and how plant matter is digested, here is some additional information on how ferrets' digestive tracts work. From the research and reading I have done, the answer to the question "can ferrets digest and use nutrients from plant matter" is a tentative yes. I say tentative, because they do not do it well. Ferrets have a very short transit time through their digestive system, and as a result, their ability to digest foods is not as efficient as some animals. The following is a quote from Dr. Susan Brown's article "Rethinking the Ferret Diet", which can be viewed online at: <http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=479&S=1&SourceID=43> >Because of the short GI tract and the poor absorption of nutrients, >ferrets require a diet that is highly concentrated with FAT as the >main source of calories (energy) and highly digestible MEAT-BASED >PROTEIN. <SNIP> >Ferrets cannot digest fiber, as is found in some vegetable and fruit >sources. If there is a significant amount of fiber in the diet it >serves to lower the nutritional value of the food. As mentioned, >ferrets need a highly digestible meat-based protein in the diet. >Vegetable protein is poorly utilized. In the presence of excess >vegetable protein the ferret can suffer from such diseases as bladder >stones, poor coat and skin quality, eosinophilic gastroenteritis >(wasting, diarrhea, ulcerations of the skin and ear tips and >swollen feet) poor growth of kits and >decreased reproduction. Fats and proteins are molecules, and vary depending on the source. Plant proteins and fats are very different from animal proteins and fats, and present different challenges when being digested. Here is a quote from the following article. <http://www.9searches.org/articles/plant_protein_vs._animal_protein-300.html> >But as much as we'd like to think that a protein is a protein is a >protein, the body's metabolism of proteins and amino acids differs >depending on the source. It could be assumed that plant proteins are >metabolized more quickly in the GI tract because the simple amino >found in the plants do not have to be broken down by pepsin or >protease in the stomach and small intestine. However, research shows >that plant proteins are actually slightly less absorbable than animal >meats, likely due to their enclosure in plant cellulose which is more >difficult for the body to digest(1). Plant proteins are harder to digest, and so they are not a readily available source of protein for an animal like a ferret that has poor absorption to begin with. Cooking will make the plant proteins more available, as cooking begins the digestive process and makes foods easier to digest in the stomach and intestinal tract, but they are still not a good source of protein for a ferret. This does not mean that ferrets can not digest plant matter at all; just it is harder for them to digest plant proteins. The following is a quote from the same article, and addresses that some cooking techniques make proteins more readily available, if you need evidence that cooking does help with digestion. >Cooking also affects the digestibility of plant proteins, and it has >been suggested that boiling improves protein quality whereas toasting >or dry heating does the opposite. But, all this does not mean that ferrets do not derive any benefit at all from plant matter, or that they can not digest plant matter. They simply do not do it well. I found a report in my Biology and Diseases of the Ferret that discusses a study done on ferrets where they were fed a diet of plant based protein. The ferrets did not die, although they did not thrive, did have a tendency to develop bladder stones and also suffered with low birth rates or a total inability to reproduce. Fox reports that ferrets fed a diet of plant proteins will have a more alkaline urine, and this will make the formation of bladder stones more prevalent. Information on this study appears on page 166 of my Fox book, which is the second edition. So, if ferrets are not able to digest plant material and can not gain any benefit from it, how did the ferrets in that study survive at all to even develop bladder stones? If they had not been able to digest plant matter, they would have died of malnutrition. My personal opinion is that ferrets will do better on a diet that contains no grains - whether it is a raw diet or a commercial one. Fortunately, we do now have several appropriate kibbles that are readily available and contain no grains. I do have a slightly different view towards some other plant matter that is sometimes added into kibble - that is fruits and vegetables. Certainly, ferrets do not need large amounts of these, and so their amounts should be kept low. But, both fruits and vegetables can provide ferrets with antioxidants and some vitamins and nutrients that are not readily available in meats. Plus, studies have shown that wild polecats will occasionally eat things like berries in the wild. Do ferrets need fruits and vegetables to survive - no. But, small amounts of them in an otherwise meat based kibble will not hurt, and may provide some benefit. Danee DeVore ADV - If your ferret hasn't been tested, you don't know! For more information visit: http://www.ferretadv.com ADV - Find out how you can help: http://help4adv.terrabox.com/ [Posted in FML 6250]