>I do not care how many years anyone has done anything, IT DOES NOT >MAKE YOU RIGHT!!! If you never try it and keep at it for the same >amount of years, then you have no way to compare the results. Are you proposing that natural feeders spend decades feeding kibble rife with plant matter and carbohydrates to their ferrets and watch their teeth deteriorate, watch them become obese, lethargic and suffer systemic and intestinal irritations before they can comment about the improved health their ferrets experienced while on a natural diet? Are you saying that before one can move forward in a progressive manner that it becomes necessary to do things "the old way"? That'd be rather like forcing someone to learn to ride and drive a horse before they could be allowed to drive a car. Or staying in the kibble vein - would you propose that those feeding "high end, quality kibble" have to feed their ferrets store brand cat food and dog food in order to then justify their observations of improved health since their ferrets have been eating better kibble? What a novel idea - Back pedal to move forward, oh yeah, that's progress. Geesh! >There ARE certain kibbles out there who provide almost 99% the same >diet as if a ferret ate whole prey. Oh really? And which kibble might that be? I know of no star shaped, crusty, crunchy, dry-matter whole prey animal running around hiding from predators! Certainly, I have never observed, nor read of any freshly grown kibble or plucked any kibble from a tree! Ferrets and Polecats are not routinely spotted browsing wheat stalks, oat groats or corn cobs. Ferrets aren't thriving on blueberries, diving for kelp, or grazing clover and alfalfa fields! However they HAVE been helping humans for thousands of years to keep these fields, orchards, barns and storage areas free of the hordes of rodents and rabbits that devour such plant stuffs! THAT is PROVEN historical fact! >Do you RESEARCH FIRST and then go for it. I have, and continue to do so, and will continue to share my findings with the ferret world. Why do so many veterinarians and even the kibble manufacturers themselves repeatedly say that natural prey diets are ideal for the obligate carnivore known as the ferret? >Totally Ferret has done EXTENSIVE research to make sure their kibble >is as close as possible to whole prey. DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST. Then why do any requests for such studies go ignored? How can a company only in business a dozen years have done "extensive" research? I have used Totally ferret kibbles in my transitions and upgrading of kibble quality for my adopted ferrets, but I've never been deluded to think that kibble even comes close to whole prey! That's rather like saying an apple flavored pop tart is the same thing as an actual apple! Let's compare "Whole prey": Rodents and rabbits are the staples for ferret and polecat natural whole prey diets. To Kibble: Nope - don't see mouse OR rodent listed as any ingredient in Totally Ferret OR any particular kibble diet! Kibbles typically use Chicken or turkey meals and by products as their supposed "main" ingredient. But did you read the links I posted previously regarding how kibble ingredients get listed? They get listed by weight not volume of the ingredients BEFORE processing. Animal by products and meals will have considerable moisture weight BEFORE processing, but once mixed, extruded or pressed, cooked and dried will no longer be a major part of that kibble! I HAVE done considerable amounts of "research" - much more than just putting blind faith in a pretty label! Enlighten me, and tell me what whole prey animal that is made of: Chicken-By Product meal. Rice flour. Dried egg product (of which there are three grades and the particular grade used is not listed). Wheat flour. Corn Meal. Herring Meal. Dried beet pulp (which they do not mention if the beet pulp is plain or has molasses added which of course increases the sugar content of the kibble). Dried Brewers yeast. Whole ground flax seed. Vegetable oil. It is perfectly understandable that people will have brand loyalty - but to presume an item cooked, processed, made of a multitude of plant stuffs is somehow a replica for a whole prey food source is truly an exhibition of blind faith! >I would like to know who actually feeds WHOLE PREY and who feeds >LIVE WHOLE PREY, I really think there is a huge misunderstanding >and everyone needs to get their wording right FIRST! There is no difference between WHOLE prey and LIVE prey. Live prey is whole prey. "Whole" denotes feeding the animal to the ferret in its entirety. Some people make a distinction and use the term "Whole prey" to denote the food animal is already dispatched (dead). Live prey of course means feeding the animal in its live form and letting the ferret dispatch it. Both methods mean the WHOLE animal is offered as food for the ferret. Whole prey is also noted by many vets and kibble manufacturers as the ideal food form for ferrets, but it is also recognized that many humans are squeamish about offering recognizable whole prey to their ferrets. Kibble manufacturers prey upon this squeamishness and play it up too in the hopes that offering their particular substitute product will part you from your money and put it in their pockets! I feed whole prey in inanimate and animate forms as well as raw meaty bones from whole prey sources. Those of us who do offer whole prey often note that the ferrets will NOT eat the digestive tracts of the prey which puts a huge dent in the statements by kibble manufacturers trying to promote their plant matter based product that ferrets in the wild" would be eating plant matter. Even for the few ferrets that do devour the intestinal tract of a mouse or a rabbit - the percentage of plant matter in those intestines is certainly no where near the percentage of plant matter found in kibble! Of course the standard statement needs to be repeated. We all know that whatever food is offered to the ferret is ultimately the choice of the human, not the ferret. Responsible caregivers WILL do research and usually try to offer the best they can. If people can accept that one kibble is better than another, why is it so difficult to accept that feeding whole prey and natural forms of raw meaty bones is ideal for ferrets? It can be extremely difficult to let go of what is familiar and to see first hand that what you though you were doing was fine could actually be inadequate. Even kibble manufacturers make improvements upon their own recipes based upon new information will the consumer negate the manufacturer's improvements because the product was doing ok for the past "X" years? Keep an open mind and broaden your horizons, do your own research, talk to people who HAVE been feeding natural species appropriate foods every day and make your own decisions. Its your ferret after all! Cheers, Kim [Posted in FML 6241]