Continuing to perpetuate MISinformation regarding raw diets while putting kibble diets on a pedestal is NOT going to help ferrets reach their optimal health! (>Suki's coments) >Well, speaking as someone with 27 years of ferrets in the family: Doing something for "27 years" does NOT equate to doing something beneficial or correct- just notes that something being done has become a habit. >Totally Ferret makes nicely balanced foods. While I have fed Totally Ferret foods in the past and do recommend them if people insist on offering kibble they CANNOT claim to be balanced because there have not been ANY studies done to PROVE nutritional requirements of ferrets beyond the fact they are obligate carnivores! NO kibble manufacturer knows the nutrient requirements of ferrets and therefore CANNOT possibly make a "balanced" or "Nutritionally complete" kibble. The mere fact that ANY kibble being produced already has large amounts of plant products within it already negates the "obligate carnivore" aspect as well as being "properly balanced" or "beneficial"! The plant items within the kibble are there NOT to benefit the ferret, which cannot even digest the stuff- but instead to reduce the cost of making the kibble and to create some sort of glue to bind the recipe together and to allow the product to come within the advertised percentages. There are no laws or guidelines in effect that state a mfr. must list the AVAILABLE protein percentages or AVAILABLE fat percentages nor from which portion of the kibble those percentages are derived from. The mfr is only required to state the TOTAL percentage within the kibble and usually only the MINIMUM percentage. The protein level listed is derived from both plant AND animal sources (meat AND bone - bone is very HIGH in protein but not amino acids). So the kibble being fed could have a very high protein level- but it isn't available to the ferret's system, nor beneficial. Fats too are often from vegetable sources but not as available to the ferret as animal fats. >No food is perfect and none is a complete villain (except many cheap >pet foods, foods not made for carnivores, and unbalanced diets of any >type). Natural foods ARE perfect for the ferret to eat, raw meaty bones, whole prey are perfectly utilized by the ferret's system. Because the kibble manufacturers do not know what constitutes a properly balanced diet for ferrets- they cannot create a recipe which will offer a balanced diet. Because kibble manufacturers are looking out for their bottom line - the batch of kibble made this week will be different from the batch of kibble they make next week due to market cost influences. If there is a glut of animal carcasses the animal proteins will cost less and there will be more animal proteins in the mix, but if corn or wheat or soy is cheaper this week there will be more of these plant sources in the mix- yet the protein levels will fall within their advertised percentages. A product made from large amounts of indigestible sources is not a "balanced diet", regardless of the advertised claims on the bag. It is VERY easy for a natural fed ferret to get consistent quality food items from varied sources. The variety of sources is what offers the ferret "balanced Nutrition". Just as our own diets are balanced over time - not one of us sits down to a meal that has every last nutrient we need. Anyone that ventures into a natural diet for their ferrets does so by first asking questions and they are guided to offer complete forms of appropriate food for their ferrets, which consists of raw edible bones, egg shells, connective tissues, skins and even fur, scales, claws from those that offer whole prey! >Kibbles wear teeth Because when the kibble is crunched it is akin to the ferret having to constantly crack through a large dry bone. Only the points of the teeth get used and usually the ferret has one side they prefer to utilize. Feeding natural food allows more meat shearing action from the teeth and only a small amount of crunching RAW bones, which are softer than kibble. Whole prey have very easily crushed bones. Kibbles have high amounts of sweeteners and carbs, these WILL and DO cause plaque build up, because the teeth don't get utilized properly. The food particles cling to the teeth and soon the plaque turns into tartar. According to the ADA, Lysterine, Crest, and vets - a build up of plaque and tartar DO and CAN cause gingivitus- which creates other problems for the teeth which contributes to other problems elsewhere in the body. >The only other anti-kibble hypothesis with any teeth (Forgive the >pun.) is that the carbohydrates *might* increase rates of insulinoma... Do we absolutely NEED scientific confirmation that constantly forcing the ferret's system to try and utilize food it wasn't designed to digest at every meal causes the ferret to endure systemic health problems? Aren't all the 3 and 4 year old ferrets on kibble diets succumbing to insulinoma proof enough that kibble is the root of this malady? Practically EVERY, if not EVERY, kibble manufacturer recognizes that ferrets have unique digestive needs, they use the term "obligate carnivore" upon their labels, yet they STILL create a product with tremendous amounts of plant products and ferrets continue to succumb to insulinoma! First hand information from people who have raised ferrets for generations on all natural diets do NOT have ferrets dieing slow deaths from insulinoma! There are other species of animals suffering from insulinoma issues and these are animals designed to eat plants! The problem they are experiencing stems from the ADDED sweeteners mixed to add "palatibility"(addiction). Kibble mfrs. not only add plant matter, they also add sweeteners which adds to the carbohydrate load that ferrets are not designed to digest! >The problems with raw are infections. This is outright propaganda and fear mongering! There are plenty of ferrets on kibble diets suffering from food borne infections! Especially when the kibble is manufactured with E. Coli, or Salmonella, or moistened kibble becomes contaminated, or the kibble goes moldy in the bag! Or the kibble causes IBD which is either created by, or contributes to unbalanced gut flora and increases in coccidia bacteria. Coccidia infections are VERY common with kibble fed ferrets! Coccidia infections get passed back and forth from ferret to ferret and are extremely difficult to eliminate! Ferrets fed raw natural diets are often eating exactly what the human is eating, except the human cooks their meat. >Most do not get them but some do and at least three types of food borne >infections are very hard to treat once contracted. Also, at least two >food borne infections have caused lasting physical damage in assorted >species, including two well done and independent studies showing >chronic kidney damage in ferrets who have been through infection with >one strain of E. coli bacteria. Salmonella & E. Coli are bacteria that take several hours to establish harmful colonies. These bacteria are EASILY found in kibble and will repeatedly get fed to the ferret also. The ferret's digestive tract works in three to four hours, so unless the ferret is already suffering from a depressed immune system these bacterial infections are not life threatening. Natural feeders are able to analyze the food source more closely than you can a bag of kibble. Even still, it is NOT uncommon for natural fed ferrets to stash a food item and happily devour the odoriferous piece many days later without so much as a runny poop! Natural feeders can have much more control over what their ferrets eat, they can control the quality of the raw items, they can even raise the whole prey offered and monitor what that prey was raised upon also. Feeding ferrets naturally DOES offer them a perfectly good, safe and balanced diet! >The worst is an unbalanced diet, whether raw or cooked or purchased. Plants are NOT appropriate food sources so already any kibble is already "unbalanced" no matter how many vitamins and minerals are added or microbes are sprayed on! A product made from large amounts of indigestible sources is not a "balanced diet", regardless of the advertised claims on the bag. >Meat is NOT sufficient by itself. Those who make at home have to >provide organs, skin, a calcium source, etc. Natural feeders do NOT feed JUST meat and they never advise anyone new to the program to do so either. >Just remember that nothing is perfect, balance the diet if homemade, >and learn the downsides and possible downsides of each thing you give >so that you can respond if the medical problem arises. Ferrets fed naturally become extremely healthy so medical issues often become a thing of the past! Ferrets already suffering from insulinoma cannot be saved by an all natural diet, but they CAN benefit immensely from the improved nutrition and relief from the burden placed upon their already kibble ravaged organs. Ferrets suffering from IBD are often helped with all natural diets and their gut flora usually return to a normal level. Adrenal issues aren't assuaged by a change in diet, but usually once people start researching more natural ways of feeding they are also learning more natural ways of housing and lighting and exercise so this often helps the adrenal ferrets too. Its hard to let go of the comfort zone offered by the fancy labels and sweet ferret faces and feel good comments displayed on bag after bag of kibble, especially if one has fed those kibbles for "27 years". But there are many ferret owners who have been offering their ferrets for generations a natural diet and the ferrets live long, healthy active lives - not 4,5 or 6 years - but 8 to 12 years! This is information that while not acquired in some cold distant laboratory, but instead from real life and real people is never-the-less notable proof that feeding ferrets what they were designed to eat will offer them optimal health! It doesn't do any of the new ferret owners any good to consistently spout off ominous hazards and warnings of infections if feeding raw, while touting the imaginary balance nutrients of kibble and negating the obvious connection of kibble and ill health. Dieing from insulinoma is NOT and should not be a natural end for a ferret! Buying kibbles and forcing the ferret to eat palnt matters and sugars it wasn't designed by nature to eat is not offering the ferret optimal health. Regards, Kim [Posted in FML 6060]