In yesterday's fml Sukie chastised someone for not thinking scientifically about how carbohydrates affect ferrets. And yet earlier Sukie has posted about how raisins are toxic/lethal to ferrets without EVER giving any references to that statement. I have been told that a Dr. Kawasaki apparently gave a talk at the St. Louis Symposium about how he has seen several cases of sudden kidney failure in ferrets, and somehow linked them to raisins. I don't know as there isn't anything at all published about his talk, or anything else on it with ferrets. Many might quote the ASPCA about raisin toxicity in dogs, however their website states: "Much is still yet to be discovered about the toxic principle associated with grape and raisin ingestions, as well as the exact mechanism leading to kidney damage in some dogs. It is also not clear if only canines are susceptible to developing a toxicosis, and additionally if only certain dogs are affected, or if chronic, long term ingestions can lead to the same effects as large, acute or single ingestions.As there are still many unknowns with the toxic potential of grapes and raisins, the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center advises not giving grapes or raisins to pets in any amount." Let's take a look at this for a minute shall we? First off, the ASPCA lists 140 cases of possible toxicity in one year, a much larger number than several. And only seven of the 140 dogs died. Only 50 had severe problems. It then states that they do not know what exactly causes the problems. Then they state they don't know if it is only canines susceptible or not, or if only certain dogs can get it. In other words, they don't even know if it affects all dogs or not, let alone any other species. They then say they don't know if chronic exposure or a one time large exposure causes the problems. Even the ASPCA says it MAY cause problems in dogs and advises not feeding raisins or grapes to dogs. So if we look at this with a critical mind, we see that raisins might cause problems in dogs, but no one yet knows for sure. Apparently one vet gave a public talk about several cases of sudden kidney failure in ferrets in his practice, but I don't know what he said or how he might have determined they were bad for ferrets since I cannot access anything that has what he said. I think it is interesting, but anecdotal. No one has proved anything at this point. And there are a lot of ferrets getting lots of raisins out there, for years and years. Now I do think it is wise to watch sugary treats as they aren't good for any of us, and especially for ferrets with insulinoma they are very bad. I certainly don't recommend giving mass quantities to ferrets, but have none more than just a few that managed to get mass quantities on their own, and save for bad diarrhea had nothing wrong with them. However, I do not appreciate anyone using blanket statements without evidence. I am already seeing in other ferret communities hoards of people telling new owners that raisins will kill ferrets, and that feeding sweet treats cause insulinoma. There is a lot of misinformation out there due to someone making claims, someone who might seem like an authority on the subject because they have put themselves in the position to pass along medical information. Sukie, I appreciate all the work you do in passing along that information. And I also realize that you put a disclaimer in your signature. But we both realize that even with such disclaimers you can come off like an expert in this community, just by posting with a certain authority, whether you mean to or not. You have put yourself in a position of higher standards and particularly if you choose to chastise someone else for not using critical thinking, then you had better make sure you have done the same. Blessings, Margie [Posted in FML issue 5188]