Debi asks: >Have YOU ever seen anaphylactic shock in a ferret?? Yes, in our 25 years with ferrets we have had several who did so. Two of them who were allergic to vaccines came extremely close to dying and needed an oxygen chamber as well as epi, fluids, steroids, antihistamines, etc. One who was allergic to an antibiotic almost made it but then failed during his second day of supportive care. Of the vaccine allergies most here were allergic to Fervac, but we also had some allergic to Galaxy, and two to IMRAB 3. I have also seen anaphylactic shock in people and as a preteen I was taught how to cut down and place an emergency stoma in my kid sister's throat because our family physician said that my parents would probably faint if they ever had to (but have since forgotten which count of cartilage space is optimal). My husband, his mom, my sister, my father, and I are all prone to anaphylactic shock. I'm actually the one in the family who does it the most often which is probably why I am so philosophical about it; it's a feeling I know well and a topic I have had to learn a lot about. I carry two preloaded injectors with epi, prednisone, extra Singulair, and Benedryl. (Prednisone is usually the second med to take after the initial injection, but I have glaucoma these days and with that or ocular hypertension the current -- and for me very effective -- experimental substitute to avoid using Pred is to take two Singulair to keep down lung inflammation. That is because taking steroids can blind a person who has glaucoma, but if things get too out of hand it could be needed anyway.) The third med humans take is the antihistamine. So, yeah, I have seen anaphylactic shock a lot, and I also know how it feels and I have come extremely close to dying of it once though usually we get emergency care rapidly enough, and for the ones who pass out I have been told and have read about the experience. BTW, the time I almost died they bumped a man with a broken arm out of his ER cubicle to put me in. I had to be told that because by then I had lost a lot a fluid and red blood cells that had carried along with it across the intestinal membrane, I could not swallow, and my face was so swollen that I was unrecognizable and could not see from the swelling. I required multiple Epi shots, and was lucky to avoid a stoma; when my eyes could open I found that a stoma kit was on the table next to my cot ready for use. Even then I got silly from the epi, though not at first. At first I was very worried about the person next to me who I could hear but not see because she was a kid with grande mal seizures who was having a really hard time of it. Afterward, though -- I guess it was at least 10 hours before we were allowed to go home -- I saw a wee hours movie that I later realized was horrid, but I was so full of epi that I was convinced that it was the height of humor. I've discussed this reaction with the allergists and found that it is not an unusual response to Epi. The other common response to epi is to panic, but that is more commonly when more is used than is needed. Luckily, I have avoided that reaction, but i do know the feeling of losing airway before a reaction treatment has kicked in, and I do know the bloody flux feeling. I hate them but I know them enough to be rather calm about them usually, and to just respond with what needs to be done. It's in avoiding them that I can get a bit nervous, and I think that anyone who has had someone assume that food allergy means hives knows that feeling. Anaphylactic shock IS a type of allergic reaction. Yes, it causes shock, and yes, immediate treatment is necessary and I am glad you pointed that out, Debi, because although I said that I guess I perhaps did not emphasize it enough. There are a range of types of allergic reactions. There are the hives and mild hayfever many people think of when they hear "allergy". There is severe sinus inflammation which causes polyps and other tissue over growth and is horridly painful and can even reduce the ability to hear when inflammation is too great. There is asthma, which can be fatal and very painfully so, and can reduce lifespan even when not directly fatal. There is a form of allergic reaction which is sometimes clumped with anaphylactic shock but sometimes listed separately in which the tongue swells so greatly and rapidly that suffocation occurs. There is dermal necrosis, which killed a friend's wife after the second stage of her marrow transplant many years ago in which the mucus membranes and skin die; that is probably the worst of all the allergic reaction types and typically very painfully fatal. In anaphylatic shock what occurs is that during a past exposure the body decided that something was a serious invader and set the stage. Then on the next exposure the body over-responds with a massive allergic reaction. Fluid is lost (the diarrhea) and it can be lost so rapidly that red blood cells are carried across the intestinal membranes just like boulders are moved by a flood (the bloody flux). Loss of fluid drop the blood pressure suddenly. This in itself can be fatal or can cause brain damage. The risk is especially great if treatment is delayed (which is why some school systems have been very properly sued for preventing teachers and playground personnel from packing epi kits for kids who need them). In those who do not pass out the airway progressively swells and the individual can suffocate to death. Suffocation can also cause brain damage if it progresses too far. (For me the brain damage risk is my personal bigger worry than death.) >This is why we encourage people to ask their vet to give the vaccine >"FIRST" and then do the physical exam as well as having distemper and >raibies shots done at different times. (This way you will know what >your furkid IS reacting to. This way you will already be at the vets >office about 30-45 minutes. That is EXCELLENT ADVICE, Debi. It's the way we do it, too, and then we wait a while afterward. I keep an eye on the ferrets on the way home because we did have one who was allergic to Galaxy have a delayed reaction, requiring a rapid and immediate trip back. In fact, we forgot our wallets that time (and have in some other emergencies, too, but they treated anyway, of course. BTW, not all get beet red so it is important that the individuals who don't won't be mistaken for not having anaphylactic reactions. In this case, when in doubt still TREAT. Any of the symptoms of an anaphylatic allergic reaction may be present, but not all need to be. Also, look for the ferret acting like the throat is kicking up (which may show as vomiting though that can alternatively happen for other reasons), for dizziness, and for any other symptoms that worry you enough. Some people may wonder why the time frame is longer waiting at a vet's than at an allergist's after a shot for human. This is because your ferret can not tell you about early symptoms. Take that seriously, folks. -- Sukie (not a vet) Ferret Health List co-moderator http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ferrethealth FHL Archives fan http://ferrethealth.org/archive/ replacing http://fhl.sonic-weasel.org International Ferret Congress advisor http://www.ferretcongress.org [Posted in FML issue 5161]