1. Others had already posted the things they consider up-points about raw diets so I did not need to do so. Besides, I do not dictate to you what you say, so why should you dictate to me what I say? 2. I provided links to the downside of raw because the poster specifically asked if any vets had treated such illnesses. They have, so I provided some of the applicable links so that the person could read the requested material. 3. I also provided the information that not all vets are against raw feeding, and I provided Dr. Brown's full name so that the person could also look those up those other references. I did not have them handy and am short on time but know they exist. 4. I don't have to make your case for you when you are making it yourself. Providing balancing info is important and can save ferret lives when some do get illnesses or parasites, and saving ferrets is ultimately what the work is about. 5. There are arguments on both sides but when people get treated as I have been publicly treated by several of the raw food advocates recently (and most of the "Why aren't you going to my extreme?" private letters have also been from raw feeders) then the folks on the other side tend to clam up to avoid being harassed. That is an ugly situation and should not exist; it is not fair and respectful behavior to list membership in general. 6. Re: the FHL. There have been one heck of a lot of diet discussions, including raw food ones on the FHL over the years, and looking at the archives shows that. The three reasons we have to keep off repetitive traffic (esp. the type that garners a lot of member complaints when it happens too often) right now were said yesterday. The other two are that Smartgroups wants traffic kept down during repair, and because of serious illness of one of our moderators there is extra work for the rest of us, so we are doing more in what little time we have. The most recent non-expert posts on raw food went into new raw egg info so were allowed because they did not duplicate existing information. They were from Chris and Shirley only 6 days ago, and I was wrong because I did not approve two of them, I approved three so that list members could have full info by reading and using the archives: http://ferrethealth.org/archive/browse.php?msg=SG16570 http://ferrethealth.org/archive/browse.php?msg=SG16569 http://ferrethealth.org/archive/browse.php?msg=SG16555 New information, expert information, and new peer reviewed studies are not a problem, even with topics that have been discussed over and over again and are largely hypothetical and unclear in terms of personal choices. BTW, with loads of info in the archives on the risk factors there were not any recent posts that presented the other side to the points in those three letters. (Just as here on the FML most of the recent diet posts have been from raw advocates mentioning only partial information.) That is hardly unfair. A personal note: I want to thank the people, no matter what their opinions are, who are handling the discussions fairly and without harassment, but sadly I want to point out to those who are being nasty and taking personal pot shots or expecting everyone to only discuss their preferred points that unfortunately they are publicly proving the point that these discussions degenerate. Is there a chance that those who behave civilly could quietly and privately get on the cases of those who don't, and explain to them why it pays to use good form? Their behavior ultimately does not help anyone. For me the most painful and disappointing were two people to whom I donated many hours of my time looking up medical info they needed over and over again, only to have them then take cheap potshots at me this week when I am already overworked. Poor form. Really poor form. When someone has a history of helping you it is wrong to turn around and just assume the worst of her instead of allowing her to just provide the info requested by another list member and provide the balance to what they themselves have been saying since they gave only one side, also wrong to say that a topic has been banned when it has been recently approved when the data is new, worse yet to do either of those things publicly. I am leaving names out of this; I would rather have people consider their own actions taken publicly and privately themselves than have list members get into a fight. The topic is important, but a fight is better avoided for everyone's sake as being unfair to the FML membership, and that is my own aim. Two more quick points: 7. I am personally going to drop the feeding topic now, but, Bill, could you, please, consider reminding people who say the topic was banned on the FHL (all raw advocates so far inaccurately saying it) that that statement is incorrect and that if my memory serves (and I am pretty tired right now) the last three non-expert diet posts were all theirs *IF* they again make that false statement? 8. Information of all types on both sides can be found in the archives of the FML and FHL ad nauseum. -- Sukie (not a vet) Ferret Health List co-moderator http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ferrethealth FHL Archives fan http://ferrethealth.org/archive/ replacing http://fhl.sonic-weasel.org International Ferret Congress advisor http://www.ferretcongress.org [Posted in FML issue 5162]