Tara and Margarite you both said it rather well. I was so astonished by the posts against 8N1 that I wasn't sure exactly what to say. Thank you both for your replies to Gordon and to anyone else who only sees a small part of the issue. It is We the People who should shape the future for ferrets by refusing to buy poor or harmful products, and yes, also certainly by posting our findings, thoughts, and opinions on forums like this one, just as Gordon did. and by telling everyone that we know -- why we don't like a product or why they should not buy/use it - comments should either be fact based and verifible or stated up front that they are just an opinion... but let's not attack others for having their own opinions or learning curves. Talk about muckraking. Shame on you - Please find another way to educate ... Oh and no one should vilify you for having an opinion about a product or procedure... you are entitled also. SO I go on record here and now FOR 8N1. They have stepped up and helped Tricks and Treats Rescue in the Greater Houston Texas area more than once now. Totally Ferret also has given generously rather than taken a back seat in favor of nothing but pure profit. It's a shame N-Bone chooses \o ignore contact, and questions; I will be looking for another treat supplier rather than give them any more money, but here we are talking about 8N1... I have made my feelings clear to 8N1 that I will not feed any fruit or veggie treats and that I watch sugar and salt content (or at least I think I do).. I hope when enough of us have expressed this position and gotten enough of our cohorts to do the same that 8N1 will cease with the unhealthy treats and only supply healthy treats. BTW does ANYONE know for sure.. for a FACT that these treats cause insulinoma... I believe the veggie based foods and treats have been vet verified as causing intestinal blockages.. am I wrong about this? Now I don't mean 8N1 helped my rescue indirectly by contributing hundreds maybe thousands of dollars worth of product to help with this year's catastrophies, WHICH THEY DID DO. I mean they have answered my needs directly with product - without question beyond verifying that I truly do operate a legitimate rescue. They have generously been a big brother/sister to many rescues and helped us help our ferrets. They haven't created the problem of excess or unwanted pets, nor to my knowledge do they contribute to it, or of so many being surrendered - like the ferret farms, distributors and pet stores have, but they do try to fill a need to help owners "keep" these pets as best they can -- yes for a profit, but the defense of that is pages long so I won't go there now - also they are constantly trying to improve their products - they do try. IMO... only someone sitting at home hearing bits and pieces of slander or reading bits and pieces of liable --- only part of the information and perhaps unable to logically process the information would take pot shots at a company whose product produced a bad batch or two... My gosh.. human food companies have had that happen to, do we shoot them down.. oh wait.. maybe people did... The company, 8N1, has already admitted that a certain lot/group of their soft food did in fact become moldy and I believe they recalled it and replaced it; although it may well NOT have been their fault for it becoming unacceptable food in the first place, Yes they are aware that their treats contain ingredients that are not good for ferrets and yet still make them; But guys.. AGAIN it is WE the CONSUMER who keep any company in business and show them WHAT to produce for sale by buying the stuff. SO QUIT BUYING IT... and then hope and pray that others will do the same. But don't call names because someone does not agree with YOUR position... Vicki Vicki Montgomery Tricks and Treats Rescue Pasadena, TX 77506 713-472-6599 [Posted in FML issue 5071]