Just an FYI, there are breeder's that are judges at the shows but in looking at the AFA Judges and Judges in training, there is approximately 13 or more judges out of the 23 that are not breeders. And not all the breeder's judge at the show because most have ferrets going into the rings, have tables to take care of and are talking to the people coming in. All in all, I see that it is quite fair. Also, breeder judges are not allowed to judge their own ferrets. They are removed from the ring they are judging. There are at times more non-breeding judges judging classes than judges who breed. The judging standards came about collectively from all the judges not just the breeder judges. And with the point system, the highest number of the points that ferrets can get is from the Disposition and Health & Maintenance category, which is more maintained by the owner. And as the person who takes the winners pictures of the specialty and title classes for the AFA, I SEE a lot of people who are first time ferret showers who win. And I also see in the specialty classes, most of the placing ferrets and the 1st place winner are from pet shops or shelter/rescues. Maybe 3 or 4 specialty winners might be breeder ferrets. Patty [Posted in FML issue 4992]