Marilyn writes >I also refuse to pay for chicken by-products now that I know what they >are, claws, beaks, and feathers. Beef products contain hair and hoofs. By AAFCO definitions, chicken byproducts are the clean, rendered ground parts of chicken, which may include necks, feet, intestines and undeveloped eggs, but may NOT contain feathers or fecal material, except as unavoidable during normal processing. Chicken and chicken meal can only contain meat, skin and bone, NO organ meats. If Bob were to bottle his Chicken Gravy and sell it, the label would have to say chicken byproducts, and I don't think anyone will claim that is bad. According to Dr. Thomas Williard of Performance Foods at the Ferret 2000 Symposium in Toronto, there are about 10 grades of chicken byproducts available to pet food manufacturers. The different grades contain from 8 - 25% ash (lower being better). Unfortunately the consumer has no way of knowing the grade used in the product they buy unless the manufacturer lists the final ash content and it is low. Beef and other meat meals or byproduct meals may NOT contain hoof, hide, hair or fecal material. Unfortunately, labels and ingredient lists are just not designed to give the consumer the information they need to determine if their pet food it really high quality or not. Also >Propylene Glycol, is found in anti-freeze... That stuff is lethal. Propylene glycol is generally regarded as safe by the FDA. Ethylene glycol is a very toxic chemical, acute poisoning usually results in kidney failure. They are different though related compounds; it would take a very large amount of PG to produce the negative effects of EG. Linda Iroff MA Chemistry, Princeton University International Ferret Congress http://www.ferretcongress.org [Posted in FML issue 4900]