Sukie! You made me spit tea all over my computer! I'm sure you can get more than your neck into your wedding dress--at least your neck and a few fingers ;) Seriously--Sukie makes herself out to be Jabba the Hut--I can most assuredly tell you all she is quite far from that :) My idea for your anniversary is is that you visit "Recarving China's Past: Art, Archaeology, and Architecture of the Wu Family Shrines" at the Princeton University Art Museum--Keeps with your wedding theme and it's free! I must agree with you about shelters always asking for money and talking about E-Bay auctions, they are their own worst enemy. Now of course when there is a large rescue, there's immediate and sudden unexpected need to not only let the ferret community know about the person the animals were seized from, but also a sudden large group of animals needing medical care will tax even the most well funded shelter. What constitutes a large rescue? I'd say anything more than 15 ferrets soming in through an emergency situation at one time. Possibly ten ferrets if there are incredible medical needs routine medica care does not fall into that definition. Anything less than that, except in the most extraordinary circumstances is day-to-day operations. Posts by shelters who are constantly asking for funds, posting e-bay auctions, etc. are posts I pass over--Unless it's an auction for some major crisis in the ferret community. IMHO a shelter who just took in six ferrets is no crisis. It's a day to day thing. Here's some advice to shelters who are constantly finding themselves in a cash crisis: One thing I learned when running a shelter was how to say "No". "My son has a ferret but it smells and he doesn't play with it, can I donate it to your shelter?" (Always loved that--can I "donate" a ferret. Duh!) My answer to that call was to give them a lot of ideas on how to find a new home for the ferret, "Ask your friends to ask their friends to ask their friends, ask your vet." (Loved it when they said "We don't have a vet". Duh number two) Told them I had a waiting list at the time, but if they'd like to call back in a couple weeks it might be shorter and I could get them on it. (List? What list? ;) ) I talked to the caller for a few minutes, and as soon as I heard that the animal was not in danger, not being abused, and being given minimal but adequate care, my answer was "No". Of course if the animal was in danger of being released outdoors or I suspected abuse, I took the animal. I also made every attempt to CHARGE A TURN-IN fee to anyone I could get it out of. My turn in fee ranged from $10 to $100 depending on what I thought I could get out of the person, the age and health of the ferret, etc. I asked them to make the check out to my vet--that way THEY KNEW it was GOING TO HELP THE ANIMALS! Again, in an abuse case I just wanted the animal to be surrendered. But when someone wanted to turn in an adrenal ferret, I gently explained that I got no funding, and that the surgery was going to cost "X" dollars, and I asked the owner to pay part of it. This takes some negotiating skills, and a good sense of when to press and when to back off, but with pratice it can be done. The other advantage to charging a turn-in fee is that it makes them think twice about their next "disposa-pet". It COST them money to "get rid of" the last one, they might think twice about getting another one. I also tried to get to the root of the problem. "My ferret stinks." said the caller. I'd go through food, baths, clean bedding, clean ears, etc. Often I'd find out that they really didn't want to get rid of the animal but couldn't take the smell anymore. I'd give them some advice and they'd be happy. I really liked it when they called me a couple months later to tell me thanks, it worked, but now they had another easily solveable problem. Those are the BEST calls!! I also had ferrets in the shelter that I suspected might be going adrenal. Rather than hold that ferret for a year for what might just be a bad coat change, I adopted it out and wrote on the adoption agreement that if the ferret needed adrenal surgery within the next year, it could be done AT MY VET paid for by the shelter. Win-Win situation. Got the ferret into a great new home quickly, brought in cash flow for the shelter, and took the chance that the odds were 50-50 or less that the ferret was going to need surgery. If I kept the ferret around for what might be inevitable, I've now spent a year of providing food and care for that ferret, and still paying for the surgery. (Obviously if the ferret is half bald this isn't going to cut it LOL!) My point is, sometimes shelter operators need to reevaluate the way they do business in order to best serve the animals in their care. I've been on the FML for ten years now--wow! I've seen lots of people come and go. Some are desperately missed (Jeanne Stadtmiller who's at the Rainbow Bridge, and some of the vets who now only post to the FHL due to disruptive FML list members) and others, well, let's just say I'm sure I'm not the only one happy that certain people have left or been "helped off" by BIG. The FML has changed a lot over the years. The one thing I will say is that in general I think people are more comfortable expressing opposing opinions without getting ripped to shreds, and I think the list has become more pleasant and more tempered. Some topics just seem to flare up every now and then--Marshall's, PetCo, etc. Others are incredibly funny or informative, even the second or sixth time around. I came on shortly after Chris left the list in the trusted and capable hands of BIG, and just want to applaud him for doing such a great job! Thanks Bill! Anne [Posted in FML issue 4852]