One thing that confuses me is why anyone would take marked offense about gently said opinions -- mostly from people who DO donate and have donated a lot of time, money, or both to helping ferrets -- opinions in posts which did not yell, did not harm, and which provided constructive solutions. No one ever said that they did not want to see any advertising. In fact, the advertising has been continuing. Maybe it is just less noticeable in the last few days because it is being done BETTER -- for example, as parts of interesting posts. Those of us who had become very concerned said that the list was becoming unbalanced, with often repeated advertising from the same places which didn't even show an effort to try to draw people in with some interesting text. Balance involves a need for many types of posts and topics. We all know that advertising is important and does belong here, but when it is done in ways that cause people to just skip the uninteresting posts, and when it is done in such quantity and with such a degree of frequent repetition by the same people then it can even cause people to skip the entire FML. I've been on here since day one and am the sole list member who has always been here, but in recent months I'd gotten in the habit of reading the table of contents and if it looked like it was entirely ads and topics that had been talked into the ground then I didn't read the list at all that day. This happened often enough to raise red flags for me. That is saying a lot when you realize that for the first ten years of the FML I read every single post, only scrolling past some after that first decade). Now, if my longevity here says something about extreme loyalty to the FML then perhaps the reality that the lack of balance was causing even me to skip the FML means that it may have had the same effect on a number of others. I think that the others who voiced similar opinions obviously agree. Even more I think that the recent increased participation with behavioral and informational posts says a lot about a wide-spread desire for balance here to keep the FML interesting -- and it has been more interesting in the last week, and you know, that has been with ads present -- because those posting the most recent ads often made them interesting and didn't abuse their readership. There is a place for a range of post types -- hence the regular mention for BALANCE. The point of advertising doesn't include driving away readership. Not only is it possible to easily write ads that also have intriguing content (for instance when shelters give an update -- telling us about the ferrets there before they advertise things) but such ads also are more successful, and that success is ultimately what the shelters want and need. Interesting ads don't teach anyone to skip that individual's posts, and they aren't boring, and they don't make a reader feel like he or she is only a wallet to the poster. So, those posts weren't yelling; they were more of a wake-up call to those advertisers whose METHODS made them their own worst enemies in terms of potential for success. No one ever said that there should not be ads. No one ever yelled at those placing ads -- at least here on the list where I posted and read. No one ever yelled here or said here that there should not be ads. (If some people did privately then I can't address why they did so because I don't know.) This is a problem with solutions. It IS possible to made an advertisement interesting, even if just by giving an update on shelter ferrets and shelter news. It doesn't even have to be more creative than that, though more creative solutions can get even better participation. The methods for making advertising successful apply everywhere including here, and driving people away with monotonous and repetitious ads is not a solution. Using good advertising methods and keeping the FML a balanced read that draws in members rather than sacrificing them will only help the shelters which advertise here. (Now I have been repetitive, but I am tired and I just don't get why there are readers who ignore what was said and instead automatically put the worst spin on it. That is not reading; it is imagining, or reading into a post -- perhaps letting one's worry or anger take over to the point where the actual statements made by multiple people have been turned on their heads. If this post made you angry or if you think it is yelling or calling for no ads then, please, re-read until you notice what is actually said instead of what you want to assume is being said.) [Posted in FML issue 4861]