Remember that while I wrote: >In areas where there are not as many good vets I do think that the death >rate bell curve would move toward the earlier death dates because vet >care matters. Yes, I know some people can't afford it. I understand >that; we can't afford more room for the ferrets to bounce around in. as part of my mentioning how very important good vet care is, that it WAS exactly that -- part of a discussion of how important good vet care is! Given the choice of more ferrets and less vet care OR fewer ferrets and more vet care Steve and I have always opted to have fewer ferrets and use the help of vets more often. As I wrote, I think that also is one of the reasons our typical age of death is higher than what some people encounter. It's like humans. Some will just live long no matter what due to genetics, but for the vast majority medical care is why we are still around after our peak years (and sometimes even after just infancy) whether due to emergency room visits, surgeries, medications (like for those of us here who have serious things from heart problems, to auto-immune diseases, to asthma, to...). For longevity I put good vet care right up there with a LOT of physical and mental exercise, and to paraphrase/quote Bob Church and a number of others through the years, including some old ferret keepers (who used different words but the same meaning): ENRICH, ENRICH, ENRICH! That is so important and I hope that everyone realizes that! (BTW, do get that issue of Ferrets magazine.) You can also find a lot of enrichment tips by going through past FML issues (though not all are in the archives at least some (?) of the missing ones can be gotten using the SEND FERRET nnnn function) looking for key words like games, play, toys, maze, exercise, puzzle, etc. Bob's posts in the last few years and his article are the best compilations, and he has used a lot of inventiveness. Oh, also two other people put up some sites with some toys that look like ferrets would love them. I'd love to hear if anyone has seen how they are received long term. Steve and I can't put them in the budget just yet but DO have them on a wish list. Also, does anyone have a way to safely enough net the upper holes in the over-the-door toy so that they will not jump? Oh, and how many here recall that GREAT ferret activity video with the J-pop song from someone's ferret play room? Is that still up? If so, does anyone have the URL? Here are the URLs of those toys I'd like to know more about: http://www.tarzansferrets.com/hexapus.htm (though we get a similar and more complex result by knotting multiple lengths of tubing together into a big Gordian Knot so it isn't first on our list http://www.tarzansferrets.com/seesaw.htm (I really lust over that one since ours already love the other teeter totter I made for them.) http://www.tarzansferrets.com/spiral.htm (This one also strongly intrigues me.) http://www.lakeside.com/details.asp? ITN=CPT&ITMPG=1&ITMTOT=8&CAT=1&KWD=cat&ST=KWD&SS=SOR Has anyone noticed how much ferrets like passing from one area into another? I wonder if hanging changeable curtain mazes (with the bottoms weighted or perhaps run around rods and moveable side to side with effort) so that the ferrets can discover that they can be moved only if they work it would be another way to enrich a ferret room. I wonder if the panels of the various ferret play pens could be covered and used to create mazes that can be changed... Lynda wrote: >This is something I also think, but when people are telling you 10/12 >years and you see such a shorter lifespan...you question your ability >and care. Remember when I mentioned following up with longevity stuff years ago because I was hoping to find some incredible lines out here to buy from? Well, it turns out that the very long lived ones are very rare, so they can't be used for comparisons. Now, I DO know two people who managed to have 9 and 10 year olds very regularly no matter what the stock and both were able to provide a large play area with a LOT of things for their ferrets to do and had sleek, extremely athletic ferrets. If we could afford to add anything here it would be that because I do think that would help the longevity results we get (which have been usually late 6th year to mid 8th year in our family through the decades). Oh, and I recently heard from someone why I couldn't get longevity results for one OW area. Without permission of the person who told me I won't narrow to the area mentioned. It seems that in at least one locale the local lore has been that ferrets have one good hunting season and that it appears that they are not kept alive after that age by some. (Obviously, we all know from shared info here that this is NOT universal.) Hopefully, that sad approach is a very rare thing; I honestly don't know. It may be, though, that if those who hunt with ferrets get a lot of publicity about older hunting ferrets and how well they do that maybe it will help have an impact. At least, I hope so! [Posted in FML issue 4794]