The alternatives Anne gave to my list of items are great ones. She's right, there are always ways around things. I use many of them and more. I also shop on the net for the cheapest prices of things. But it takes people quite a while to learn and get into the swing of things, fall into routine, and learn all the "tricks". They won't be able to grasp them all at once right away, and most don't make the efforts to out of convenience anyway. I also don't "assume" the least of costs when I inform people. That is not practical. The alternatives given help, but don't take a good chunk of money off the total bill anyway. The vet bills are what really adds up. As far as me listing your alternatives to them, you are right, I should and somet imes I don't have time in a store to do so ... most of the time the people themselves don't take the time to stay and learn from me or the pet store employees anyway. When I have tried to tell people about these alternatives and lists however, I fail to see the notebooks come out. Inevitably, they're gonna come back to the store they bought the ferret at and use those products. So I try to be as brief as possible, just giving a snapshot of the situation. I give them my phone number, websites, answer their questions, and do what I can on the spur of the moment. How many ever really contact me? Not one. Numbers and lists/notes (if I jot one down for them) get lost. People get busy, etc. It's always better to give a realistic cost, or even the most it can be so things don't get out of hand for a person AFTER they buy a ferret. We here are the minority here on the FML. Most people aren't computer buffs or join ferret lists to learn things. The average owner doesn't know other owners, may not realize a shelter or club might be in their state or want to contact one, and might only buy one book for a reference. You can tell a person to buy a great book, join the FML, contact a shelter, or just visit a website all you want ... but many of them never ever do. Not everyone even has a computer or Internet anyway. - Most people want liter not paper or even clay. It controls odor. Many ferrets play with newspapers or dig them up so it's not an option for everyone. Feline Pine on the East cost can be as cheap as 8.99 a bag and as much as (hold your breath), 17.00 (in some Petcos). I gave the least amount of money for a good odor controlling liter (did you ever wonder how many ferrets are given up to shelters because people were just intolerant of the odor? I do. It's a great complaint of many nonferret or new ferret owners. So I don't advocate clay, newspapers, etc. (stove pellets are not available in most of the southern regions). I tell them it's an alternative ... but if they choose to buy liter, most litters will be ten dollars (newspaper pellet liters are very expensive here by the way). - Laxitone and Ferretone ARE 18.00 combined as I said, in this area ... and it is my area I am speaking of. Everyone will have varying costs in different areas. The point is ... it's still very costly to own ferrets. If you buy Ferretone from Petsmart, Petco, private pet stores (remember, I DON'T take for granted everyone has computers, Internet, or is even willing to go that route) ... Laxitone is around 7 dollars (or more), and ferretone is around 9 (I often include taxes .....habit) in this part of the country. - Natures Miracle, or Simple Solutions .... try ten bucks a piece or more in many states. Occasionally I see it for 8 dollars a bottle. Yes, bleach is cheap. But if you run ferret laundry every so many days that is one load more than you already do, at least two times a week for many people .... added electricity, water bill, laundry soap wear and tear on the machine, as well as bleach. Heck, I never used bleach before ferrets! It's a tiny bitty cost, but it is a cost. It all adds up. - Our dollar stores rarely ever carry something as specific as cat or ferret nail clippers (I tell them that they can use baby nail clippers as well, many people don't look comfortable with that when I tell them and ultimately buy clippers anyway). The dollar stores rarely even carry soft enough brushes, let alone the ferret ear cleaners, shampoos and other things. Baby shampoo is great in a clench. It's a great and safe option, this is true. But if you bath more then a couple times in a year, it can really make the coat coarse over time and can dry their skin making them itchy. Most importantly to the new ferret owner, odor control might be an issue with them. You are right for me to offer baby shampoo as an alternative, but I'd also have to tell them, that they might want to try ferret shampoo first because it neutralizes odors so great. - Cages in pet stores run about 400 dollars for something like Superpet cages. You can get a better cage for new from Martins cages, etc. Once again, I don't take for granted people will listen to me and go to these websites or that they even have computers or time to do the Internet stuff. I hate to say it ... we all on the FML are sort of computer geeks compared to most of the population which might not even casually surf the net. Most people I run into on the street ... average Joes ... are not part of any internet club, list, or otherwise. If they have any access at all they surf or play games. Most people have very busy lives and aren't interested in the net. The dollar stores can indeed be a gold mine IF one is careful. It wasn't long ago, that the only bowls that they sold were dangerous to ferrets specifically because of the paint. They had the little colored paw prints and the dishes were white. Most of the toys, and gimmicky pet things there are made cheaply and can be dangerous to a something as destructive and as smart as a ferret. People that have never experienced ferret ownership are not qualified yet to pick out which baby toys, etc, are appropriate. Until a person experiences a ferret, what their jaws can do, how they can tear things and take things apart, I'd feel much better if they began with ferret specific toys and then go from there. Michelle, I apologize with all my heart. How could I ever forget doing Alexandrias' stork dance across the floor after stepping in ferret poop and having it gush up between my toes? How could I forget the literbox joke? Actually I do tell people in real life, that it's never a 100% hit rate. The pet store people just loooooove that while they are standing there trying to sell a kit. You know what's funny? I've only met one person in my life, that has seen me liter scoop, etc, that has actually gone on to ferret ownership. ONE. Lol. And every friend that has baby-sat during our vacations, actually went from thinking that they were cute to not liking them much at all. Seriously. They think we're nuts. I mean reaaaaally nuts. I had eight myself. My husband loved it. The rest of the family didn't. We plan to let it dwindle down to a manageable level. I too wonder about the psychology of the ferret owner. Especially the multiple ferret owners. That would be a great topic to analyze (or is it anal-yze? lol) and debate here! Yeah! Hey Melody? "They bite, don't they?" ::Snicker:: Just haaaaaaad to do it. Wolfy http://wolfysluv.jacksnet.com [Posted in FML issue 4707]