I just wanted to say that this has been one of the best threads on this subject and related subjects in a long, long time. Thank you Sukie, Linda and others as this has been a refresher course. Yes, I've needed one. It's been easy to follow as well. Many times when this subject is brought up the general message gets lost, bogged down by overly detailed genetic aspects. I'd like to review some points for readers (and ask others to as well, because I won't remember it all): -- Selective breeding for fancy markings (obvious neural crest spotting) should not be done (possibly not for certain colors and dilutes as well but I suppose that is debatable). -- Breeding practices like this will not just result in probable deafness, but can also result in other defects such as aortic arch (cardiac) defects, GI defects (narrowing of the GI track in particular), limb deformities (such as shortened tail, nubs or none growth related bumps on the ends of tail, and leg deformities in kits), high kit mortality, lower number in liters, possible breeding problems (poor mothering, and sterility?), jaw deformities (shortened jaw, and jaws that might not open as wide as other ferrets), possible susceptability to malignacies, and even possible shortened life span (more anectdotal than scientific). There may be other associated, but more rarely seen problems seen in other species such as dulled intelligence, etc, but I forget what those are. Of course all or none of which might be present in a ferret. Think of it like a collage of possible traits, and each picture can be different. -- Neural crest disorders are those such as various types of Waardenburg syndrome (white stripe on the head, possibly pandas, wide set and sometimes bulging eyes, nasal differences, deafness in 78% of the animals, other white markings,), KIT (more irregular white markings, splotchy markings, asymetrical markings ... possibly the panda/blaze mixes, deafness much of the time, some skull and inner ear differneces, the list goes on and on), and other less common and studied disorders. The thinking here is that we are now seeing more possible KIT cases than WS, or mixed cases in ferrets today. -- These disorders occur when embryo cells (stem cells) are directed to migrate to various areas to form organs and tissues of the future organism. Some of these cells, such as the neural crest cells, go to Egypt instead of America (lol). Because of this misdirection there are defects resulting in various syndromes such as WS. -- Albinos and DEWS can also have neural crest disoders, we just can't see them because outward markings that would indicate said disorders are maked by all white fur. -- Expression of neural crest syndomes is extremely variable. Take a look at my deaf ferret site to see two complete different expressions. One ferret looks almost standard ... the other a mixed up "fancy mutt". -- And Melissa is dominant ... no recessive. Wait. Darrin is dominant and Sukie is recessive. And they all aren't common. No. I got it ... oh hell who cares! -- We as people who "control" breeding of ferrets bear the responsibility of what we now have have today in the population. We should breed for health. Not for beauty. Even then we must be careful to not introducing/increasing new problems in eliminating other problems. -- Not all deafness in ferrets is caused by these genetic problems. Deafness is also caused by unwise use of Gentamycin (spelling is wrong), unchecked ear mite infestations, ear infections, neuro infections (meningitis, etc), and trauma. Okay corrections? Did I get the basics right? Wolfy http://wolfysluv.jacksnet.com [Posted in FML issue 4670]