Q: I ve seen charts and some people say high protein diet is dangerous. Q: I was surfing the net and found a food comparison chart at [omitted] . According to that chart, Natural Gold is not a good food because of too much protein. What do you think? A: I thinks, therefore I yam. When I thinks a lot, I yammer. This particular site, as well as several others I have seen (and I looked before writing this), makes judgments regarding particular percentages and types of foods. The main three problems I have with the chart mentioned is that these evaluations are not explained (who says the values selected are correct? Why are they correct?), there is no mention of ash content (very important), and that many of the values are incorrect or out of date; the first reason being the most problematic for me. For example, it suggests 50% protein is too high for a ferret's needs, yet it doesn't defend the objection, nor provide references to support the position. By this standard, ANY NATURAL PREY OF POLECATS CONTAINS TOO MUCH PROTEIN FOR A FERRET'S NUTRITIONAL NEEDS! Somebody needs to go to Europe to tell em their polecats need to eat more carbohydrates! That is probably what made the black-footed ferret go extinct! Generally, whole carcass prey animals rank by dry weight somewhere between 50-70% protein, depending on age and how fat they were when the analysis was done. Look it up yourself! These numbers are facts, are easily located, and anyone can confirm them. If someone suggests 50% protein values are too high for a ferret to consume, a hypercarnivore that evolved eating prey animals for millions of years, and that it could cause medical, nutritional, or other problems, they damn well better offer substantial scientific evidence to satisfy me or I will file the objections in the toilet where they belong. I will tell you outright there is absolutely zero, no, nada, zippo evidence that ferrets will not thrive on a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate diet that mimics a polecat's natural prey. Now, I wouldn't suggest playing infantile games like saying, "Well, my ferret, taking several drugs, who has severe kidney and liver damage, is allergic to nearly all forms of animal-based protein, and doesn't make several types of protein-digesting enzymes does poorly on a high protein diet" because I might verbally skewer you just for the satisfaction of my evil twin who sincerely enjoys roasting people with their own heated words, stewing them in their own gall. The truth is, there is absolutely no evidence a normal ferret- -sans strange or rare genetic or other diseases- -will be harmed by a diet having 50% protein. If you can prove otherwise, post the references and teach me something new, and I will value your input forever! Think about this for a moment. Fox's book basically states ferrets have no carbohydrate requirement, Hand et al. says ferrets have no carbohydrate requirement, and numerous journal papers say the same thing about black-footed ferrets, ranched mink, and ferrets raised for fur (some in languages that seem to be mostly composed of diacritical marks and consonants). On top of the whole thing, you have 2400 years of ferrets eating high protein foods while in domestication. And on top of that, you have 14 million years, or more, of adaptation to a high protein diet. Now, in contrast, for the last 25 years or so North Americans have been feeding ferrets a high carbohydrate diet and suddenly insulinoma is a problem. The scientific evidence suggests that high dietary carbohydrates is perhaps the foremost reason for insulinoma and sure enough, there are tens of thousands of ferrets with the problem where high carbohydrate kibbles are fed, and the problem is rare in other parts of the world where the diets are uncommon. So, where are the thousands of ferrets that are suffering from problems caused by eating a high protein diet? If a high protein diet was bad for ferrets, then you would have at least as much evidence the problem as you do for carbohydrates causing insulinoma, because all the time North Americans have been feeding kibble, Europeans were going their merry incompetent way just feeding their ferrets that nasty old high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate food, just as they had for the previous 2400 years. Strange during all this time and all these ferrets, such little evidence exists showing high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate diets are bad for ferrets. Besides, it simply doesn't make nutritional sense. If carbohydrates are bad and cause insulinoma, what else do you have to fill out a dietary formulation? Excluding carbohydrates, all you have protein, fat and minerals (ash). If you want to bring down the protein level without adding carbohydrates, you'll simply have to increase fat or minerals. So to drop it down to the accepted levels suggested by that obtuse comparison chart, and the ferret will have to eat so much ash or fat that IT WILL CAUSE health problems. The chart suggests 34.4% carbohydrates are within a ferret's acceptable needs: there no way such suggestions are accurate or supported by nutritional science that takes into consideration a ferret s physiology. That might be true in a ranched animal destined to live until their pelt becomes prime, but there is no evidence it is healthful over a normal lifespan. A close look at the chart suggests a food having 32% protein and 40% fat is within the recommended ideal value for ferrets! Amazing! And that s not a good amazing. I really dislike these types of charts because rather than simply showing the ingredients of the food, they steer people to specific foods by making arbitrary decisions on the types of food being offered. I understand good intentions, but trying to do good aside, such recommendations, without substantial scientific support, are unethical. It is one thing to simply list the ingredients; it is another thing to judge them without reliable scientific support. Create the comparison charts if you think they have any value (I don t), but don t scare people about high protein diets being bad for primary, obligate hypercarnivores without first finding the evidence to back the position. More questions answered tomorrow. Bob C Communication? [log in to unmask] Questions? [log in to unmask] [Posted in FML issue 4573]