I've been told that Sandi wrote: >Sukie wrote: "You just said it a lot better than I did, MIke!" >Yes, thank you Mike. Sukie didn't address this at all, she just went >on and on about privacy and her morals. Actually, I did say it -- something like 5 times -- you just missed it. That happens. I know it can happen more easily when a writer is as verbose as I tend to be, but it was in there often enough that you seem to maybe be the last person to not notice what I said. At least, I hope everyone understands now! I mostly addressed what was told to me by those who read the complaints to be the primary complaints, but I did explain that stuff about people being confused by the seller's wording and using a Lupron other than the one they thought they were getting, so not getting the type of formulation and strong enough dose to help their own ferrets. ***** I also said over and over again that my main point was -- and remains -- that when something is sold to people that they need to be clearly told what they are buying. I suspect (though I could be wrong) that your and Suzanne's (for a while) missing those points emphasizes that there is a great deal of confusion out there about Lupron. This speaks to what I repeatedly said was my main point: that there is no good reason for confusing wording to be used over a space of years by a seller or his representative just because he is looking at possible longer term effects in some ferrets from the non-depot shot. The seller must be clear to the people what the differences are between what is being sold (the 24 hour injection) vs. the monthly depot which is time release. There remains a great deal unknown about which ferrets are best helped by which approach, and two conflicting hypotheses on this score. One may apply to some ferrets and one to another. That simply makes it even more important that TRUTH IN ADVERTISING & IN SELLING be used. There is no good reason for people to not be be told clearly exactly what they are buying so that their vets can make the most informed choices for the individual needs of specific ferret patients. The confusing wording used has been reported over a space of years; that just plain needs to be cleaned up because even if intentions are good the treating vets need to learn clearly when they or their clients are not being sold depot versions of Lupron. Sorry about repeating that again but I think that point needs to not be lost in this morass. ***** By now I think that it is obvious to everyone that you don't care for me, which isn't exactly a news flash, so if you have no actual points to make now that you have read Mike's post other than engaging in a bashfest could you take a few minutes to think about the ways in which that can be unfair to the majority of the FML readers who come here to share about ferrets rather than be either annoyed or bored by people carrying their private gripes to the list and willingly end it, please? ***** BTW, I don't think that the current preps of Lupron require liquid nitrogen (but I could be completely wrong so have a mail to someone I trust asking that question because my impression that the preps may have changed could be entirely wrong), BUT even if liquid nitrogen is still needed liquid nitrogen isn't exactly prohibitive to get; we know people who make their home made ice cream using it. You can use a special container (It can be dangerous in a closed vehicle and it damages badly whatever or whomever it touches -- this being the same stuff magicians use when they turn a real rose to shatterable "glass" in one trick) but others who know how to handle it safely (Again, it can be very dangerous in several ways.) use a wide mouth thermos with a hole in the cork for some uses. Please, see: http://webs.wichita.edu/facsme/nitro/safe.htm http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html (Some of the above could be dangerous if not done by someone who strongly knows the needed precautions.) http://www.polsci.wvu.edu/Henry/Icecream/Icecream.html (Again, read the safety info.) http://webs.wichita.edu/facsme/nitro.htm (Has link to safety info.) and similar pages will show you that this is a gas to respect strongly but also that it is easily acquired and not economically prohibitive so imagining some vet's offices or compounding pharmacies having this at times (or even all the time if a lot of ferrets are treated there) should not be hard for anyone to do. I figured I'd better mention that because having liquid nitrogen sounds so prohibitive until a person does a little reading. ***** [Moderator's note: I think we've heard enough about what was or was not said. If someone has comments about Lupron, that's fine. But, Sandi or Sukie, more comments about each other are out of place and won't be posted. BIG] [Posted in FML issue 4567]