Hi Lisa, I have been through this twice in the past 2 years, and am likely about to go through it again. Don't give up! Some people will tell you that some ferrets will just never get along, and I believe that to be true BUT I think that in most cases, you can make it work. It will just take time. My last "introduction" took 3 months before they could all be together. You're doing everything right. Have you also put newbies bedding into existing ferts cage? I do a lot of bedding "mix and match." Another thing is to get some bitter apple (or whichever of those products works for you) and to put it on the newbies' necks so that Panda isn't as interested in "attacking." Be careful not to get it in the eyes, though, and you'll need to reapply it. Lastly--and some people may not agree with this but it has always worked for me--at some point (probably not yet) you may just have to do supervised plays with, say, one newbie and Panda and let them go at it for a while, then separate them, then do it again the next day. Obviously, you'll separate them if it looks like anyone is getting hurt. We had to do this. They're establishing their order, you know? Oh, I also used to scruff a newbie in one hand and an established fert in another, and talk calmly to them and let them sniff....sometimes, I think the ferts you already have are worried the newbie is going to take mommie away from t hem. I felt that this helped show them I could be with both of them at the same time. Our last newbie got dragged around for weeks and cried and fear pooped. You'd never know it now. They all sleep together in a big pile in the same cage. Like I said, it just took time, work, and a lot of patience. GOod luck! (If anyone disagrees with the way that works for us, don't flame me! I'm not saying this is how everyone should do it!) T.A. [Posted in FML issue 4488]