Thanks also to Melissa for tips! Oh, gosh, thanks for being so sweet, Dawn! You are so right that ferrets are a constant learning experience. I think it is at least as important when folks mention what they have discovered that doesn't work or is just plain wrong as mentioning what works (example a few months ago: we learned from a scare with Helix to NOT immerse her in cool water during a large fever spike but to instead use rubbing alcohol on her paws -- we got lucky during her terminal illness that the immersion didn't throw her into shock). We all have a wonderful place here to discuss all sorts of things and share what we learn. Think of the many ferrets who were saved from accidents due to past posts on things like laundry, dishwashers, gas stoves, drier vent tubing, etc. So many people have been so forthright about what could help others. That is one reason this is such a constructive list! Another reason is the sympathy and kindness shown others. And just think of the many charities (sheleters, SOS, ADV charities, etc.) and other things which help ferrets which were born at least partly due to the things found by members of the FML. If someone were to try to list all of the good this list has done the ferrets and the ferret community I don't think that the documentation would ever be done. We're all very lucky that Chris Lewis began it and then I guess about 5 years later which I think translates to maybe about a dozen years ago (just guessing on figures) Bill Gruber took over and improved it far more. We're all very fortunate. [Chris was active in the list for 7 years. BIG] We are waiting for Lingity's latest blood work and urine work done today and she will be having an ultrasound. Her pancreas, liver, and kidneys just aren't looking good. The inclination is toward thinking that she likely has lymphoma, but she is not strong enough in her blood work to risk pulling a node and the aspirates haven't been conclusive. She is getting very bossy. She knows that I have a nasal spray med (Astilin) that she hates the smell of and sometimes when she is brought into the room for her Prednisolone compound she will pull over the opposite side of the room, bump the container which I have that nose spray in then bump my nose. The message seems to be, "If I have to have a yucko med then you have to have a yucko med first". Yes, she gets her way. Vickie, cedar is just plain dangerous. Pine is more of an individual thing. It depends on sensitivity and allergies with pine. That means that cedar just plain should not be used, and for some ferrets pine also should not be. We've never had a problem with pine but I guess I know three or four people who have run into such problems with their ferrets, including one vet whose ferret had such an acute rapid problem with pine that the ferret almost died. Here is a wonderful write-up which explains some nuances of the two: http://www.trifl.org/cedar.shtml Theresa, what blood test was done? Was it the TN Panel? I ask because it's hard to know what is going on with your little one. If it wasn't the TN Panel then perhaps it was a mistaken diagnosis of an adrenal growth. Then again, if it was the TN Panel and was accurate then something is going on in there. As you'll have noticed some researchers think that perhaps when it is just hyperplasia present that Lupron might shrink a growth (though no one is saying that it is curative or can be curative), but that when it is something more serious like an adenoma or carcinoma there is the chance of the growth not reducing or even continuing to worsen even with Lupron. The only curative approach known at this point is surgery. So, find out what blood test was done, because if the call was based on observation alone you might want to do the TN Panel. DO remember that at times a ferret who does have an adrenal growth will gain fur during an Autumn or Spring shedding and fur growing cycle but when that happens the adrenal growth is still present and still can continue growing. Also used as a medical approach is melatonin, but recall that Melatonin only lessens some symptoms and might help reduce second onsets as might Lupron; both are under study so at this point it is an interesting hypothesis rather than something proven or refined. Melatonin is not a treatment for the growths themselves and not considered a cure. We, too, have had ones on whom we had to wait an bit; in that case we've tended to use Lupron for some but not for others -- letting it be the vet's call. Size alone is not always indicative of whether something is wrong, so it can be hard at times to decide what to remove. There is a LOT on this archives of the FML and of the FHL to help you. http://listserv.cuny.edu/archives/ferret-search.html http://fhl.sonic-weasel.org [Posted in FML issue 4335]