>So, how do you find the happy medium between giving them plenty of rest >time and keeping them from being excluded? I guess it depends on the household. Here we have all sorts of dark and hidden sleeping areas for them which they can go to during out times: bedding in the far end of a long closet with only the opposite door slightly open, bedding under our platform bed whose construction itself keeps out most light, etc. We also have the cage on a trolley. For us that rarely get used (except in vacuuming or when we use any cleansers in that area but in other households a trolley or casters may be just the ticket more often. BTW, there are animals with longer known total sleep times and longer known REM times than ferrets now. (Ferrets are high for both REM time and non-REM time.) The ones with more total sleep time have faster metabolisms, and the ones with longer REM times were born more immature, with platypuses now holding the record for the most REM (dream sleep time in typical human conversations) sleep time among mammals. I wrote this badly: >with the secondary one trying to clarify if those abusers have >repeated which Sue says that they haven't yet so I wanted to clarify that what I meant by that is that I consider Susie to have answered the secondary question with the latest data she had available. In case anyone took that to mean that I still had questions in that area I don't and I am sure that we'll all wind up hearing about it if new data indicates that the couple is at it again. It just hit me today there is room for that alternative reading. Well, I don't personally question the veracity of most rescues and don't see any reason to do so. There simply are so many people involved that the very concept of them being faked doesn't make sense to me. There have actually been more "Help my personal ferret" posts which cause me to have questions. Now and then there is a post about a rescue for which there just aren't people involved, or there are new people involved (which could mean it is the same person using different names) and none of the established ferret people get anywhere when they seek to give physical assistance, but when a number of established ferret people are involved I don't think that any faking or abuse of donations is taking place at all. There was one highly questionable rescue report I guess last year -- can't recall quite when -- when someone who has since praised a known and prosecuted abuser and who also has since said that large donations had been sent to rescues when they had not been sent claimed to be involved in a large rescue but when established ferret people offered hands-on help the person clammed up. That one was questionable. People can't fake such things when there are a number of hands-on established ferret people in there, though. Do I demand an accounting? No. When the primary criterion is in place of many established ferret people in there working I figure it is time to give the benefit of the doubt about veracity. (I just wish we haven't been without a real income for a year and a half so we could donate, too, but life is life and we have postponed a number of repairs, haven't bought things, and are minus a bit of furniture while ferrets get their medical care so that we don't have to touch our longer term savings for retirement and major emergencies and have less impact on the rainy day savings.) My focus here in this specific situation (and we all have different foci, ALL of which help ferrets) is on finding ways to work smarter than we have been as a ferret community: getting those bridges in place in place which will allow cooperation with existing authorities for more prosecution, improving laws and policies (and therefore the general ferret community absolutely needing to know which ones need improvement), getting people to realize that the FML has members who often enough surprise others with their connections and resources, getting the bridges in place with general shelters so that ferrets get the right care (like the wonderful one CB just told about), ferrets in mass resources can be saved at the same time that prosecution can take place, being able to use the resources and sometimes medical care of general shelters, etc. There *IS* more and more work in this direction being done every day by ferret shelterers, but a lot more is needed. Bridges can only help us help the ferrets. The more ferrets there are as companion animals the more this is true, and that has been a topic of conversation for years which is why there are ferrets shelterers who have already worked and gotten such essential bridges in place. The FML is a very smart and very talented community with useful hidden surprises so the members of the FML wind up being able to help in ways people never expect till they ask. The simple fact, is that FML members and the FML are treasures. [Posted in FML issue 4302]