Re: information on food: It often appalls me the way that the topic of food is a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" subject where vets are not listened to because they don't have enough nutrition courses (which is sometimes true though some vets have as much or more such education than those same folks who repeatedly tell us to discount vet input on nutrition, and vets do know things like the ways diets impact on infections -- like the way that tuberculosis in ferrets in the U.S. has almost disappeared ever since kibble became more common than feeding raw beef, raw poultry, or raw milk), while animal nutritionists like Dr. Tom Willard who actually do have an advanced educational background aren't listened to (or sometimes are shouted down on lists) by some people because they represent the status quo and products. Who does that leave? People who have had no related courses or several courses (compared to a doctorate in the topic)? A balanced picture can't be gotten that way. Good ideas can at times be gotten and have been gotten and used, but weighing them to know which are good and which of those good ones should be left without modifications involves needing the input of those who can fill the knowledge gaps: the animal nutritionists and the vets. I like having a balanced picture so that I can weigh the arguments from all of the sides. That means that I want not only to read what those whose field is not animal nutrition or animal health have to say -- because often they have good points or exciting observations or useful contributions -- but I ALSO want to read what the people who do have related educational backgrounds have to say because they so very (very, very) often can spot gaps in the knowledge of the rest of us which we don't even know are there and which pose some major cautions or considerations if we only can discover that the gaps are there. Getting a fuller picture can only be a good thing. So, anyway, that's a gripe of mine: that diet has become enough of a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation that the conversations too often close out information from two essential sources of input: those with advanced degrees in animal nutrition and vets. I doubt that most people feel that input from experts should not be present, and I doubt that many of the people (perhaps all) who provide info think that such input should not be present, but a loud enough few have created an avoidance by experts which hurts us all by the often repeated true comments that never-the-less reflect ONLY on the negative (such as "Too many vets have not studied nutrition." or "He makes his living from kibble.") instead of ALSO mentioning the ESSENTIAL contributions such experts can make. As a result such repetitions decrying vets or those with degrees in animal nutrition cause their avoidance -- reducing expert participation in such conversations -- and can prevent all of us from getting a balanced assessment. We can utilize what those experts have to offer when we weigh what we read. Unbalanced repetitions which address only the weaknesses of such experts undermine input and deprive us of information which could only help us make our choices. I'm glad that Bill included the kidney and diet info in the FML Tuesday. What I learned from Tom who holds a Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition/Biochemistry, a M.S. in Animal Science/Statistics, and a B.S. in Agriculture Technical Engineering and Animal Science was actually different from what I'd thought I'd hear, and that is fine. It's better to learn than not, and learning sure helps ferrets. Learning is what the exercise of asking him about this (since he does have the right background to know more than most) is all about and that includes finding that a previous hypothesis I'd known about was just a hypothesis with only one study behind it and that it has been overturned by later work, something which has happened in many areas of ferret health and well-being over the years and will continue to happen many times over. Knowledge is always in a state of flux by definition. [Posted in FML issue 4154]