Q: "I object to you saying kibble was nothing more than meat powder and sugar.... I think kibble saves lives [both prey animals and ferrets]." A: I think kibble makers roll in dough. The chicken protein in the kibble has to come from SOMEPLACE; I doubt if chickens are donating protein in some Far Side equivalent of a blood bank, so I can't understand why you would think feeding kibble saves animal lives. The amino acid sources in kibbles are derived from a variety of sources, but are ultimately some combination of meat and plant proteins. Honestly, the body cannot tell the difference if an amino acid was initially constructed in a plant or an animal, so it makes little difference where most of these building blocks of protein originate. However, ferrets requires a substantial amount of amino acids that are ONLY made in animals (essential amino acids), as well as some essential fatty acids and fat-soluble vitamins, which is why they are termed an "obligate carnivore" (they are obligated to eat animals). In polecats, the progenitor of the domesticated ferret, more than 95% of their total food intake is animal carcasses, also making them a PRIMARY carnivore. In contrast, humans also evolved as obligate carnivores, but have never been a primary carnivore. As a result of this diet, ferret digestive organs and physiology are specifically adapted to consume a diet primarily composed of animal bodies. Ferret are NOT designed for a vegetarian diet, specifically, the consumption of large amounts of starches and carbohydrates. Kibble is essentially unleavened bread, cooked hard. In order to retain shape and resist decay, kibble MUST have: 1) a significant amount of carbohydrates to form the initial dough, 2) all original components must be of a size small enough to mix consistently and react uniformly during the extrusion process (a powder), 3) contain only a slight moisture content to resist decay (kibble is 10% or LESS moisture, green bone averages 7%), and 4) include preservatives to prevent oxidation of those essential nutrients replaced after cooking. In effect, kibble is mummified, preserved, meat- and vitamin-fortified bread. You can argue the esthetics of forcing an obligate, primary carnivore to consume mummified bread containing meat powder all you want, but that is another subject. The problem is the carbohydrates. As far as the physiology of ferret digestion is concerned, there are only two types of carbohydrate: those that can be digested, and those that cannot. Because plant grains are an important source of the final protein percentages in kibble, they have to be highly processed in order to "release" the amino acids so ferrets can digest them. That's fine, but it also changes the structure of the carbohydrates, making them also much easier to digest. All carbohydrates are nothing more than long chains of sugar, so when they are digested, those parts make--you guessed it--sugar. You can be obtuse and argue all you want about what percentage of sugars are actually absorbed by the ferret, but you would miss the important point that ferrets are obligate, primary carnivores that have a digestive tract and physiology adapted to a diet containing less than 5% plant material. Forgetting for the moment that kibble is mummified bread, the carbohydrate content is AT LEAST 35-40% of the total (in the best kibbles), and perhaps up to 60-70% in the cheaper housecat brands. It is not conjecture that even PART of such a carbohydrate load results in significant physiological changes in ferrets, especially in the pancreas and it's glucose-insulin feedback system. I believe this carbohydrate load directly results in a decline in oral health, is the driving force behind the apparent rise in insulinoma, is probably correlated to bacterial overgrowths in the gastrointestinal tract, and, because it promotes obesity, a factor in cardiovascular and other aliments. There is overwhelming evidence a diet rich in calories shortens lives by as much as 25% or more! So even though kibble may be harmless to some, it is very likely it SHORTENS the lives of ferrets (and people blame ferret farms for shortening the lives of American ferrets when compared to those from Europe, ignoring issues of diet, overcrowding, photoperiod, cage stress, inactivity, boredom, and early neutering). Kibbles are doughs made of meat and processed carbohydrates finely divided into roughly and finely ground powders, hard-cooked into a crunchy bread. The carbohydrates are highly processed, making them highly digestible. Digested carbohydrates are broken down into sugar. A diet of excess sugars in humans results in horrific problems, ranging from obesity to cancers. The important question is, what is the impact of such a diet on an obligate, primary carnivore, even more adapted to a meat diet than humans? Bob C [Posted in FML issue 4114]