Excellent posts on this topic! Today was a great read for me; I had fun and learned. I hope the discussion continues. BTW, some foods or supplements are worse than others for generating radicals (part of a discussion elsewhere of what sorts of responses over-doses of copper can cause). Also, BTW, there were similar betacarotene findings in some human studies. The results were variable and the hypothesis arising was that perhaps betacartene may have protective effects if a malignancy has not begun but once it is has begun then the compound may actually help nourish the malignancy. (Since it is still commonly impossible to spot a malignancy in the very earliest stages or even to know it is there till it takes hold enough to produce symptoms that complicates matters.) It's a hypothesis about nutrient uses by specific malignancies (since they do vary) that I have also seen applied to soy and to some other things, too, and of course, there are always those weird things that some malignancies do with certain nutrients -- like the way some breast cancers can better shield themselves from radiation therapy if the person is taking in much Vitamin C -- bad, bad, bad... In general, we have found our ferrets to be robust health-wise, but certainly we've had exceptions. I strongly suspect that it doesn't help that so many here have previous exposure to ECE. That seems to line up a percentage for later problems. There is also one form of lymphoma which can occur in clumps if there is an exposure (apparently years before) to a form of virus (BTW, there is an excellent general lymphoma article by Dr. Bruce Williams in "Ferrets" which is a must-read.), and one hypothesis from a few vets for adrenal neoplasia involves possible viral exposure being part of the contributing factors. There is also the problem that some tests just aren't yet as useful in ferrets as in other animals so progress is needed in those. For instance, liver enzymes can the thrown off by too infrequent meals, not enough nutrition, or inability to utilize foods (as happens during ECE): http://www.afip.org/ferrets/Clin_Path/ClinPath.html and kidney disease can too often be hard to spot to spot from tests till it is decently advanced. (We've even had one comatose from a thrombosis due to kidney disease and still had the tests not be useful for several weeks more -- for those who haven't encountered mention of the pathology stuff from Dr. Bruce Williams on this -- true strokes actually have not yet been documented in ferrets but thromboses from heart disease or kidney disease among other things have, though some vets just use the term "like a stroke" when discussing it with clients to clarify it. I'm not a pathologist but know i trust the source.) Because much of ferret veterinary medicine is still so new many things can't be spotted well and some things just aren't easy to spot, anyway. One example is the hypertrophic form of cardiomyopathy which still usually isn't found until after death from necropsies and pathology. (One of our little ones had unexplained wasting who had it and the wasting cleared up when her heart was treated and have heard of a few others presenting like this.) Ferrets are shorter lived animals who are not covered in most veterinary instruction programs and whose veterinary approaches are quite new and incomplete. Add that to things like too danged many of them being bred for appearance with genetic defects like the neural crest disorders which are associated with health problems in multiple mammals (pandas, blazes, certain spotted ones) rather than for health and longevity and you get exactly what is to be expected. I've heard a geneticist say that among the things that breeders can do improve things would be to totally forget breeding for pigment reduction and for markings and to instead concentrate on coloration. There was such a rage for these in the U.S. among buyers that these alleles are more common in the U.S. population now which is extremely sad. Health and longevity first when breeding! BTW, on this score I have a question for those here who have rescued more emaciated and more parasite ridden ones than we have. We tend to find in such adoptees a long-term reduction in health in these individuals (I am talking about the really bad ones -- skin and bones, long term poor nutrition, covered with dozens of ticks kinds of rescues.) Have you also? ***What have you found to be useful?*** We currently plan on saving about $4,000 per ferret for life-time care. We figure that we owe that care to them. Some cost more (especially the badly deformed ones we have taken in who have run into the 5 figures) and some less; for most here the majority of the out-go is in the last year of life. Hey, we just all tweak things as we go along; some of the things tried turn out to work and some don't, but we all learn and we all try. [Posted in FML issue 4132]