>From: christine herman <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: need Advice/Insulinoma ,wasting,vomiting and biting Hi Christine, I hope you have had other input on Timmy by now, but I thought I would just offer a few suggestions. If he has low bg, the pred is an affordable medication. It may take a week or two for his system and metabolism to adjust, but you should see improvement. If he is still acting 'out of it', his pred dose might not be high enough. What was his bg reading, and how much pred is he on? One of the biggest things that comes to mind, though, is that he is thin, poor coat, grinds his teeth, and is 'humped' up. The 'humped' position and grinding are indicative of pain, in my experience. Something is definitely 'wrong' with your little guy, and I would suspect and treat for Helicobacter if he were surrendered to the shelter. I use the Amoxi and Biaxin (which isn't cheap, but it works good). The grinding is indicative of some sort of abdominal pain, quite often stomach ulcers. I have gotten good results with using Carafate 10 minutes before meals, feeding Gerber Second Stage chicken baby food, diluted and warmed, (for 30-60 days) and giving the Amoxi and Biaxin for 14 days. Most of this information can be found on the Ferret Health List, complete with veterinary recommendations for med strengths and dosages. Just do searches on 'helicobacter', 'ulcers' in posts by 'Bruce Williams'. I have seen a dramatic difference in one ferret that only was given the Amoxi and Biaxin...I caught it early enough he had not developed the ulcers. I can send before and after pictures if you like. Another 'huge' possibility that comes to my mind, especially with the extremely thin frame, and the vomiting, is a large hairball (or several). (hairballs are painful...think of a stomach full of sandpaper) They will not pass a larger hairball, and can it can actually push into the exit of the stomach, and cause a complete blockage. The 'larger' ones will irritate the stomach until they grind in pain, and will vomit 'blood-tinged' saliva. Quite often, with a hairball, they will have a stool that looks like a melted 'Hershey Kiss'. The hairball can even 'move around' and cause intermittent vomiting, then dislodge allowing food to pass, which sounds like you have been seeing. Nothing will 'fix' a hairball; it must be surgically removed. (where are you located; my vet would do the surgery for around $150.00 -I'm near Lima, Ohio)) The treatment for helicobacter will not help if it is a hairball. You may see improvement, (because they could have helicobacter along with the hairball) but it will not 'last'. I generally treat for helicobacter first, and if it doesn't resolve the problem, I strongly suspect a hairball. Your vet may even be able to feel something in the stomach area...it will be 'almost' up under the ribcage -right by their diaphram. If he can feel any kind of a mass...I would go straight to surgery before Timmy gets any weaker. Just my experience with multiple shelter kids. I struggled to learn a lot of this, dealing with ferrets I thought I would loose, before I figured out what was wrong. Let me know if I can help in any way... Julie ===== Julie Fossa (419) 225-8383 West Central Ohio Ferret Shelter "Just A Place To Hang Your Hammock While You're Looking for A Home!" [Posted in FML issue 4053]