[Moderator's note: Debra also sent a MUCH longer alternate version should I have room to post it, but this is a pretty full FML. Her longer post quoted much more law but was otherwise pretty similar to this post. BIG] I spent two days pondering this before responding even though I had the appropriate code references at hand. I hope I have diffused some of my annoyance, but there is still a section where my sarcasm clearly comes through. >YOU CANNOT force a system to work when you cripple it as the OR >rescue did. Seems to me that this is as an emotional over-reaction as it purports the message to which it responds to be. >When you say the animals cannot be released for foster or care to another >rescue- you are full of crap! <snip> >Maybe you have redneck ways in TX and feel the actions were appropriate >but I would do some checking & rechecking- I know I will. I will be in >eastern TX in Nov. and have some long-standing ties to the TX police >community. You bet I will look into your claims post haste and be happy >to report back to this forum! (I have already forwarded your post to my >"friends" in TX law enforcement for clarification) Well this is sure a fine way to win friends and influence people to follow your suggestions. Let's call them liars and rednecks and imply criminal stupidity! While we're at it let's paint a whole geographic region/cultural group with the same brush! Let's accuse them of being overly emotional, given to hyperbole and irrational! And finally, top it off with a taunt of intent to go well out of one's way to disprove another's comments. That'll show 'em what's what and maybe heap on a helping of humiliation while we're at it! >IF you feel the laws or procedures are not adequate you NEED to get >active in amending your local & state laws. <snip> The facts are the >SYSTEM will not change UNTIL we work with it! And we must for the good >for the ferrets! There is the useful meat of the message. It's too bad that more time was not spent offering suggestions on how to achieve a change at the state law level or offering links to text of better animal cruelty laws that might be used as a guide to create a proposal to present to legislators. Now allow me to make the search for applicable Texas laws easier: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/he/he0082100toc.html TITLE 10. HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ANIMALS CHAPTER 821. TREATMENT AND DISPOSITION OF ANIMALS SUBCHAPTER B. DISPOSITION OF CRUELLY TREATED ANIMALS http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004200toc.html TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES ' 42.09. Cruelty to Animals (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly: (1) tortures an animal; (2) fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody; (3) abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's custody; (4) transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner; (5) kills, seriously injures, or administers poison to an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's effective consent; (6) causes one animal to fight with another; (7) uses a live animal as a lure in dog race training or in dog coursing on a racetrack; (8) trips a horse; (9) injures an animal, other than cattle, horses, sheep, swine, or goats, belonging to another without legal authority or the owner's effective consent; or (10) seriously overworks an animal. http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0001200toc.html Punishments defined for above offenses. If you look closely you'll notice that there is no clear definition of what constitutes adequate food, water, shelter and care. The trend here seems to be to define it in the most extremely minimal way possible. I've had the issue about holding a hearing before releasing animals to foster care presented as a problem in a completely different case that the one Leanne mentioned (I have never met her, don't know her, my location is coincidental). While the law doesn't *specify* that impoundment could NOT be in the care of foster homes, neither does it specifically allow it. I imagine it is really up to the judge. If you can get that far. I've been involved in an attempt to address a collecting/cruelty situation in which the proper authorities were involved and every effort was made to cooperate with law enforcement and follow legal procedure. Because of the lack of specificity, the laws were used to create a circular reasoning excuse to drop the complaint... can't enter the building without a warrant and can't get specific enough evidence to approach a judge for a warrant without entering the building. All that resulted was an order to clean up the property and building because it created an environmental issue and the person moved the animals to an unknown (or at least unconfirmed) location preventing further monitoring or action. So my opinion is that what Leanne described is not impossible under the law. *LOTS* of room for improvement. Debra in Fort Worth [Posted in FML issue 3929]