It was with great sadness I was informed, via telephone, of Lisa's FML post regarding Martini. I was sadder when I read it. Sad because it didn't belong on the FML, and I am shocked Bill Gruber allowed it. I am offended at his inability to understand the difference between a public and a personal dispute. But since the issue is now public, I will mention MY side. I HAVE told Lisa about Martini, more than once. I told her while facing her on her couch, with her husband listening in the other room (you said that talk saved your marriage, remember?). I told her in Toronto, in front of other people. I told her in Las Vegas, again in front of witnesses. I have even told her vet there was NOTHING osteological that could be reported, that Martini's skeleton was unremarkable, with no tumor growth or malformation noted. I have told her in emails, which I have kept printed copies as part of the donation record. Each time I discussed it with her, I said I would look again, and if I found ANYTHING, I would report it. I have looked at Martini several times now, but there is nothing to find and nothing to report. Lisa thinks there is, and assumes my refusal to "report" as a refusal to give her closure. Lisa's problem is I will not write a necropsy report specifically about Martini. I will not for two specific reasons: one, Martini was sent to me by a vet, and like blood tests and X-rays, laboratory reports belong to the doctor. But the more important reason was that I was not ASKED to do a necropsy. Martini was donated with the following message: "...the owner understands and supports your research and wants to donate the ferret. I suspect a [bone tumor]...let us know if you see anything." I did NOT do a necropsy, but I wouldn't have done one anyway. I cannot do one for no more reason than the body was frozen for shipping. More importantly, I never received the type of medical records that would have allowed me to do so. I always look at a superficial level, but depending on preservation, even a superficial look may be useless. Legally, I don't think I can even write a necropsy report--I am not an approved pathology laboratory. I don't even know how or why Lisa ever thought I would do a necropsy; she never heard that from me. The only thing I will ever report is what I find osteologically and only then when the research is finished. For example, Sukie donated a beloved ferret and I haven't reported my findings back to her. Not because I am hiding something, or because I am evasive, but because any conclusion requires data for understanding, and until the research is done, the conclusions cannot be made. You simply cannot understand if a bone is normal or not until you have a large enough sample to figure an accurate standard deviation. Another friend donated a beloved angora ferret, and again, I can't say much until I have a real understanding of what "normal" is. The range of size in ferrets is tremendous, and the effects of neutering, diet, and breeding greatly complicate the issue. My only other reporting debt I know about is to a person who donated a ferret that had part of the cranium surgically removed, but I have lost track of them after they moved (my fault, not theirs). I don't solicit dead ferrets from owners. I have mentioned my research, but I don't ask people to send me dead ferret bodies. I NEVER asked Lisa for Martini. I was approached, and when I thought the donation was legitimate, I accepted. In fact, when people ask me, I usually ignore the first email, making the assumption that people who are really serious will ask again. Then, if asked a second time, I generally try to talk them out of it. Sukie offered me a second ferret, which I declined. Bull Gruber made an offer, which I declined. ONCE I solicited donations from a vet who saw a lot of ferrets, but I have not done it since. There was even a time I had an opportunity for obtaining culled ferrets from a commercial breeding establishment, and I declined that. There are quite literally dozens of FML people who could confirm these statements. Rather than take ferrets from individual people, I prefer donations from shelters, where it is less of a personal issue, and someday perhaps the knowledge gained can help the community as a whole. The research I am doing is geared to finding a way to distinguish domesticated ferrets from wild polecats. I am also working towards proving the feral ferrets in New Zealand are quite different than pet ferrets in Europe and the USA. A few offshoots of the research are an understanding of the effect of diet on the teeth, and how adrenal disease reduces the density of bone. I use skeletons to do this. The process of getting a beloved pet to a museum artifact is, to me, quite disturbing. I love ferrets deeply, and it is personally painful to prepare them for study. Done right, it takes considerable time. As the research is finished, the skeletons will be sent to the Smithsonian, for permanent curation. I suspect Lisa thinks she can embarrass me into making some type of report, which is why she posted here. But she is wrong. I am not embarrassed about my actions or conduct, and while this business does not belong on the FML in any shape or form, I am not in any way disturbed that people know about it. Lisa, you cannot bully me into writing something I am not prepared to write. I did not do a necropsy, I never said I would; all I looked at were the bones, and as I have told you repeatedly, there was nothing conclusive to report. After three years, don't you think there might be some sort of problem being manifested beyond your complaint? You don't need a "report" for closure, you just need to learn acceptance that sometimes you can do everything right and still bad things will happen. I'm still your friend, Lisa, but please, you need to move on. This isn't healthy. And Bill, you have to consider this question. Why have most of the vets and ferret experts quit posting on the FML? Your actions have placed our friendship in jeopardy, and I will reevaluate my participation in this forum. The FML is a ferret list, not place where personal grievances can be aired in an effort to harm a person's reputation. I thought better of you. Bob C [Moderator's note: I think Bob and I don't see eye to eye on this one and I've responded to him extensively in a private note. Of course, no matter how I personally feel about any issue, Bob or any other subscriber has every right to air any opinions on this list provided they don't "flame." And Bob most certainly did not flame. BIG] [Posted in FML issue 3868]